$1/2 NL interesting hand

[Mr. Sandbag]

I was recently playing in a $1/2 NL cash game, and I got caught up in a hand. I ended up losing the hand, but I am wondering how anyone else would have played it. Here's what happened:

The player to my right - call him X - straddles for $4, so I am first to act pre-flop. I get pocket 8s.
I raise to $12, and 3 players call me, including X.
The flop comes 6-4-2, 2 clubs.
X checks. I bet $24. Everyone folds, except X, who calls.
The turn is a 7 (no club).
X checks. I bet $50. X contemplates for a minute before going all-in for $66 on top of my original $50 bet.
I end up folding to his all-in, and he shows me his hand - 5-8 (may have been clubs, but I do not remember). He had made a straight on the turn.

When X called my flop bet of $24, I put him on a flush draw. I bet $50 on the turn because I still had an overpair, and I wanted the bet to be high enough that he would possibly fold his draw or lose confidence in his pair.

When he went all-in, I came to 2 conclusions based on his previous plays in that game, and I spent a good minute or so contemplating which one was most probably before folding. First, he is either on a club draw, and he decided that if he is going to chase the flush for nearly half his stack, he might as well put it all in with hopes that I fold and he takes the pot right there. Second, he had a subpar starting hand, hit his straight on the turn, and checked in hopes that I put out a big bet.

I decided that the first conclusion was least likely of the 2 because even though I had only been playing with this player for less than 2 hours, his all-in was unlike any of his previous plays that I had seen, so I had no doubt that it was not an outright bluff. I decided that the second conclusion was the most logical because I had seen this player protect his straddles and/or big blinds by calling raises several times before, which means he could have anything, including garbage cards that make a straight. I had never seen him make any crazy plays, like all-in bluffs, and he had chased straight draws (even gutshots) earlier in the game by calling $20+ bets.

I think that if I had checked the turn instead of betting, he would have made a bet of at LEAST $50 on the river (which I know was a 9 because we had the dealer run it out). I would have called because I would have put him on a confident pair on the flop due to my check on the turn. Either way I see it, the only way I would have saved myself the $50 is if I had checked the turn and he had gone all-in on the river because I call almost any other bet, or I overbet the pot on the flop. I am not even confident that an overbet on the flop would have moved this particular player off the straight draw.

What do you guys think?

[HalfSugar]

You played it fine, although the fold would often be wrong with no history of the player - calling 66 to win 328 by my maths means you don't have to be right too often for this to be profitable.

I had to look twice to see that he had a double gutter on the flop rather than just a gutshot. Were it not for the straddle, I'm sure the outcome would have been quite different.

[Mr. Sandbag]

That's what was so difficult about the fold. I know that a call would generally be the correct move because of the size of the pot. Had I not played with this player before this hand, I most definitely would have made the call.

[HalfSugar]

I think the only hand you can possibly be beating here is a club flush draw assuming oppo is not a total moron. 5:1 is grounds enough for a call against a random.

Good fold in this case I think as sometimes simply getting a good price can be reason enough to stack off unnecessarily and you avoided that.

[jimmer]

I think you also need to think about the guy protecting his straddle bet.

Although this is designed to get more money in the pot, IMO it also means the player who straddled is more likely to fight for the hand.

Maybe this analysis is wrong, but i tend to noitice more resistance from a straddler than those who don't.

If my theory is right - maybe his play preflop and on the flop makes sense?

[Mr. Sandbag]

I think you also need to think about the guy protecting his straddle bet.

Although this is designed to get more money in the pot, IMO it also means the player who straddled is more likely to fight for the hand.

Maybe this analysis is wrong, but i tend to noitice more resistance from a straddler than those who don't.

If my theory is right - maybe his play preflop and on the flop makes sense?

You are right. That is why I put him on the straight. I had seen him protect his straddle and big blinds before and call $20+ bets with draws, but I had never seen him go as far as bluffing an all-in just to protect his original pre-flop bet. In fact, I hadn't seen him go all-in at all up until this hand, and as far as I am concerned, when a player makes a move that strays from his normal betting pattern, it USUALLY (not always) represents a big hand.

[miaowmiaowchowface]

if you dont wanna bet fold here, isnt checking the turn a good option

[Mr. Sandbag]

By making a bet on the turn, it pretty much revealed his hand to me. Had I not bet the turn, I would have no more information on what he could have and probably would have called any bet he made because a) it was the correct move and b) because I had shown weakness by checking and he may think I was bluffing and backed off when he called.

[miaowmiaowchowface]

yes you define his range more but you end up wasting money in the long run, when you can just outplay him on the river for free.

[Mr. Sandbag]

How could I outplay him on the river for free? Either I bet, and his reraise gives his hand away, or I check, and almost be obligated to call his river bet because a) I know little about what hand he's holding and b) I showed weakness by checking after betting and he could be trying to steal.

[crack]

Must be a pretty solid read to put him on a straight when you are holding two of the straight cards in your hand.

I am not going to be betting the turn here and folding to such a small all in. I find in these small games they can do that with so much shit, I mean A7, straight draw, flush draw etc, Just check back the turn and see what comes on the river mate. The hands easier to play by doing that.