77 facing open shove from LP

[odlozilik]

We are in the money already, about 750 players remaining, payout structure pretty flat. Nothing special seen at the table so far, pretty standard play. Should I call this?

Full Tilt Poker Game #23470119963: The $200K Double Deuce (177963140), Table 738 - 800/1600 Ante 200 - No Limit Hold'em - 20:28:37 ET - 2010/08/29

Seat 1: odlozilik (21,515)
Seat 2: Rafael Mundim (63,869)
Seat 3: kmichael14 (15,372)
Seat 4: vyhristy182 (50,559)
Seat 5: CAPT JACKK (29,430)
Seat 6: sh800m (54,702)
Seat 7: memelas22 (34,732)
Seat 8: Hepatitis O (5,544)
Seat 9: Slytlytilted (38,684)

odlozilik antes 200
Rafael Mundim antes 200
kmichael14 antes 200
vyhristy182 antes 200
CAPT JACKK antes 200
sh800m antes 200
memelas22 antes 200
Hepatitis O antes 200
Slytlytilted antes 200

Slytlytilted posts the small blind of 800
odlozilik posts the big blind of 1,600
The button is in seat #8

*** HOLE CARDS ***

Dealt to odlozilik [7c 7s]

Rafael Mundim folds
kmichael14 folds
vyhristy182 folds
CAPT JACKK folds
sh800m folds

memelas22 raises to 34,532, and is all in

Hepatitis O folds
Slytlytilted folds
odlozilik ??

[HalfSugar]

Without any read, no. Position says his range could be quite wide but with only that to go on, it's not a great spot.

[miaowmiaowchowface]

meh i wouldnt fold, include BB counts next time plz

[jeffonline]

Without any read, no. Position says his range could be quite wide but with only that to go on, it's not a great spot.

THIS AND THIS

meh i wouldnt fold

[odlozilik]

OK, it seems that the answer is unclear. I didn't put him on the monster PP because he would raise smaller amount then I think. So, would you call if villain has shown you 2 overcards?
Another question: Is it better to call the coinflip, or to open raise/shove any 2 cards from LP in this situation?

[miaowmiaowchowface]

i suck at tourneys : (

[jeffonline]

One advantage middle pairs have against over cards is fold equity, when someone raises all-in before you act, you have lost that equity, now you’re a 50-50 race. You would only want to be in this situation if your sort stacked, deep against a sort stack or you just want to gamble. Its relatively simple, just know why you make the decision and don’t feel bad when it goes against you 50% of the time.

[lwestatbus]

You don't say what the tourny chip average is but you are 1/2 - 1/3 of count of 3 players at your table. If you're in the money and the payout is 'flat' (I assume you mean until quite a few more go out) you could view this as a chance to roll the dice to either get your chip count up to something more competitive or to bust out and move on to something else. You aren't under a huge pressure to act quickly.

Not sure what I'd do.

Anyone know what a "BB count" is?

[odlozilik]

You don't say what the tourny chip average is but you are 1/2 - 1/3 of count of 3 players at your table. If you're in the money and the payout is 'flat' (I assume you mean until quite a few more go out) you could view this as a chance to roll the dice to either get your chip count up to something more competitive or to bust out and move on to something else. You aren't under a huge pressure to act quickly.

Not sure what I'd do.

Anyone know what a "BB count" is?

Well, I was thinking in quite a similar way as you have described. Current prize was 40$ and it was increasing very slowly (100th gets about 120$), nothing too worthy untill the final table or so. Moreover, I was BB, what made my odds to call even better.
So, I called, he flips AJ, and beat me, of course.

[lwestatbus]

I don't think I saw this reply but I was trolling old posts and read it again.

One of the biggest problems I have is that I can regularly get deep in tournaments* with tight play but I am always getting caught as the blinds get up into the 1200/600 range without enough chips to survive more than a couple of orbits without making a big hand. If we're down to that insidious 19-23 player range with three underpopulated tables with the blinds coming around even faster then you can be really screwed without a big chip stack to weather you through. I just have to start gambling more to either get into this home streatch with more chips or to bust out and go wash my car or something.

Steve Zolotow had an interesting article on coin flips in the January 18th issue of Card Player when he wrote, "You generally should welcome [coin flips], not avoid them." I think you had a good read and did exactly the right thing.

And of course some bozo is going to beat you.

* My 'tournaments' are all $2.20 satellites to the Sunday 1/4 million. If I ever get far enough ahead I'll actually play a real one someday.

[golddog]

I'm kind of thinking along the same lines as Larry. After paying the BB, you have ~12 BB left, right? It's implied that there's not an upcoming pay jump, but what's not stated is where you are in the blind level. If there's only a bit left in this level, you need to be more ready to shove, as your M will drop dramatically after the increase.

With the SB at least next hand, I'm looking for a spot to get it in.

With CO - 1 shoving (and no particular other reads), he's telling me he just wants to win it right here. Thus, his range is pretty wide, but probably not a pair which has me crushed (except 8s or 9s). I probably make the call, but don't like it, as unless he's on A (7 or less), we're racing for my tournament.

I guess the real question being asked is, am I likely to find a spot in the next orbit where I can pick up the 1600 I'll lose here? I don't know, I feel like shoving is fine if you're comfortable going in knowing you're almost undoubtedly racing.

Caveat: I didn't notice this thread til after odlozilik posted the results; not sure how much that influenced my answer.

[Felting]

One advantage middle pairs have against over cards is fold equity, when someone raises all-in before you act, you have lost that equity, now you’re a 50-50 race. You would only want to be in this situation if your sort stacked, deep against a sort stack or you just want to gamble. Its relatively simple, just know why you make the decision and don’t feel bad when it goes against you 50% of the time.

I'm inclined to wait for a hand where i can get it in first due to fold equity.

[BeerWench13]

I'm inclined to wait for a hand where i can get it in first due to fold equity.

Agreed.

A raiser, not a caller be.

[SamLive]

IMO AJ all in with that specific situation is a bad move for AJ knowing your stack is at risk, what about standard raise to 5k? 77 can call and easily fold on overcard board, without risking your stack? AJ all in is such bad play and even worse 77 calling, IMO fold 77 here. I would rather be the one going all in instead of just calling.