A bluff, deep stacks + a weird spot.

[miaowmiaowchowface]

#1) Hold'em No Limit ($3/$6)
Table 'Luna' 9-max Seat #6 is the button
Seat 1: HaLoHaLo ($579 in chips)
Seat 2: JPette333 ($641 in chips)
Seat 3: H ($983.20 in chips)
Seat 4: Festivuss ($926.75 in chips)
Seat 5: V ($984.05 in chips)
Seat 6: pterodactyl6 ($652 in chips)
Seat 7: bfl4me ($600 in chips)
Seat 8: Phil_Ivey420 ($600 in chips)
Seat 9: DanielFerg ($653.70 in chips)
bfl4me: posts small blind $3
Phil_Ivey420: posts big blind $6
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to H [Th Td]
DanielFerg: folds
HaLoHaLo: folds
JPette333: folds
H: raises $12 to $18
Festivuss: folds
V: raises $42 to $60
pterodactyl6: folds
bfl4me: folds
Phil_Ivey420: folds
H: calls $42
*** FLOP *** [9d 2d 9h]
H: checks
V: bets $96
H: calls $96
*** TURN *** [9d 2d 9h] [3c]
H: checks
V: bets $210
H: calls $210
*** RIVER *** [9d 2d 9h 3c] [Jc]
H: bets $617.20 and is all-in

Guessing hero has KK/AA here(JJ QQ check turn right- I've shown great strength imo). I represent T9sJ9s89s 22 33 JJ(meh, doubt I'd call down 2 streets with that but its plausible). Me and the villain have never played, we recognize eachother as standard tags. (I don't give him 9Ts, low pp a lot of the time because we have never played together and I don't think he'd be 3betting lite too much yet. Or is this a wrong assumption...)

#2) Hold'em No Limit ($3/$6)
Table 'Janina IV' 9-max Seat #9 is the button
Seat 1: DnCarlos ($1373 in chips)
Seat 2: Belok ($668.60 in chips)
Seat 3: moondog77 ($605.70 in chips)
Seat 4: V ($494 in chips)
Seat 6: H ($1168.60 in chips)
Seat 7: HAMMER930 ($389.05 in chips)
Seat 8: Thanks ($658.90 in chips)
Seat 9: JPette333 ($621.90 in chips)
DnCarlos: posts small blind $3
Belok: posts big blind $6
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to H [8d 8c]
moondog77: folds
V: raises $18 to $24
H: calls $24
HAMMER930: folds
Thanks: folds
JPette333: folds
DnCarlos: raises $54 to $78
Belok: folds
V: calls $54
H: calls $54
*** FLOP *** [2h 3h Qd]
DnCarlos: checks
V: checks
H: checks
*** TURN *** [2h 3h Qd] [9c]
DnCarlos: checks
V: bets $36
H: raises $104 to $140
DnCarlos: folds
V: raises $104 to $244

Again, I don't know anything about this villain except he multitables fullstacked, so hes probably standard. now wtf is this, people at fullring keep pulling this levelling games bullshit and it annoys the f*ck out of me. I guess this is clearly a fold but what should I put him on/call with? Halp!

[xDiamond_CutteRx]

1. Some people are comfortable check-calling for their stack here. I'm not. I think he shows AA/KK/QQ too often, even if he is a nutball. Honestly, I probably either shove/fold the turn here. Calling commits us when I'm not sure that's what we want.

2. Clearly a fold. He has a flush draw maybe like 5% of the time here, and the rest are monsters against which you're lucky to have 2 outs.

[Kemics]

we recognize each other as standard tags

surely you mean loose passive?

[miaowmiaowchowface]

1. Some people are comfortable check-calling for their stack here. I'm not. I think he shows AA/KK/QQ too often, even if he is a nutball. Honestly, I probably either shove/fold the turn here. Calling commits us when I'm not sure that's what we want.

2. Clearly a fold. He has a flush draw maybe like 5% of the time here, and the rest are monsters against which you're lucky to have 2 outs.

hand 1 was planning on shoving any non 9 river after calling his turn bet. I would otherwise fold turn. I like shoving on the river cuz thats probably the line i take if i actually have the FH- but I can see arguments against this.

[kingetje]

representing such a tight range here is not gonna get you any folds.. AA KK QQ are NEVER folding in hand 1

[Ryan_j37]

representing such a tight range here is not gonna get you any folds.. AA KK QQ are NEVER folding in hand 1

Yea this. If he folds, he had AK, AQ and was trying to double barrel you off your mid pair. You have to decide what your going to do on the flop in this hand. Do you think villian is capable of triple barreling you with air? Your hands basically face up as what it is. It really looks like he's milking you with AA KK.

Very few 9s are in your range that would open in MP and flat a 3bet. For this reason your bluff doesnt work. Its very hard for you to have a 9 in villians eyes, your basically trying to rep JJ which rivered a boat. No way does villian fold AA,KK.

I fold probably on the flop seeing as were oop and were going to have to play a horrible guessing game as to whether our hand is good on the turn and river. Basically were calling hoping that the turn blanks and he doesnt fire again. Not +ev.


Hand two im not sure wtf your trying to pull. Preflop is pretty marginal. I probably play it the same as you but im not thrilled about it. People always over estimated their implied odds to hit a set in 3bet pots. We dont stack villian all the time and set over sets/ suckouts happen enough to decrease our EV but when we factor in the original raiser calling and the fact that we close the action, us coming along for the ride is probably slightly +ev.

Turn villian makes and odd bet and we make an equally odd raise. Now really, wtf is going on here? Surely if villian has any kind of air here he either fires the flop or bets the turn for a much larger amount. Villian then proceeds to click it back after our raise which narrows his hand to QQ,99 in my opinion. He probably thought to himself "top set! better check I dont want to scare them off"

My diagnosis (or is that prognosis?) looks like your coming down with a serious case of fancy play syndrome.

[miaowmiaowchowface]

representing such a tight range here is not gonna get you any folds.. AA KK QQ are NEVER folding in hand 1

Yea this. If he folds, he had AK, AQ and was trying to double barrel you off your mid pair. You have to decide what your going to do on the flop in this hand. Do you think villian is capable of triple barreling you with air? Your hands basically face up as what it is. It really looks like he's milking you with AA KK.

Very few 9s are in your range that would open in MP and flat a 3bet. For this reason your bluff doesnt work. Its very hard for you to have a 9 in villians eyes, your basically trying to rep JJ which rivered a boat. No way does villian fold AA,KK.

I fold probably on the flop seeing as were oop and were going to have to play a horrible guessing game as to whether our hand is good on the turn and river. Basically were calling hoping that the turn blanks and he doesnt fire again. Not +ev.


Hand two im not sure wtf your trying to pull. Preflop is pretty marginal. I probably play it the same as you but im not thrilled about it. People always over estimated their implied odds to hit a set in 3bet pots. We dont stack villian all the time and set over sets/ suckouts happen enough to decrease our EV but when we factor in the original raiser calling and the fact that we close the action, us coming along for the ride is probably slightly +ev.

Turn villian makes and odd bet and we make an equally odd raise. Now really, wtf is going on here? Surely if villian has any kind of air here he either fires the flop or bets the turn for a much larger amount. Villian then proceeds to click it back after our raise which narrows his hand to QQ,99 in my opinion. He probably thought to himself "top set! better check I dont want to scare them off"

My diagnosis (or is that prognosis?) looks like your coming down with a serious case of fancy play syndrome.

Wow thanks, excellent post. Much appreciated.

Also, general thoughts on calling 3bets OOP w/TT? Should there be a certain amount of depth in stacks? Can't stand playing this hand OOP...

[Jernej Zorec]

i'm not sure on preflop play with TT
but i dont like the shove on river coz the only hand V is worried about on river is JJ rest is bluffs from missed FD imo

[xDiamond_CutteRx]

If I'm going to just call a 3-bet OOP with TT, I'm pretty much playing just for set value, so I need to make sure I'm getting decent enough implied odds. Most of the time I will check/fold a flop that doesn't contain a ten, even all unders. That's pretty much with the intent to avoid the gross situations above.

If you're going to just call the 3-bet with TT, I'd play real cautious and give the guy credit for a bigger pair. I wouldn't be real thrilled with an all-under flop.

If you're going to commit when undercards come anyway, I'd just 4-bet shove preflop, because you obviously don't really think he has a bigger pair. And call me a nit, but that just seems spewy, unless the guy is 3-betting air like all the time.

[Ryan_j37]

Wow thanks, excellent post. Much appreciated.

Also, general thoughts on calling 3bets OOP w/TT? Should there be a certain amount of depth in stacks? Can't stand playing this hand OOP...

I generally just let it go pre if im 3bet by a decent player oop unless im very deep. The implied odds are usually not there.