A full house on the flop. How do I maximise my profits?

[jimmer]

I can't seem to find the HH on this hand so, I'm remembering from memory.

This was my very first hand at the table. I have info on quite a few players but unfortuantley not player 3.

Seat 1: Player 1($54.55 in chips)
Seat 2: jbdb3 ($50.00 in chips)
Seat 3: Player 2 ($61.50 in chips)
Seat 4: Player 3 ($116.95 in chips)
Seat 5: Player 4 ($45.80 in chips)
Seat 6: Player 5 ($21.50 in chips)
Seat 7: Player 6 ($51.60 in chips)
Seat 8: Player 7 ($34.05 in chips)
Seat 9: Player 8 ($54.75 in chips)
Player 1: posts small blind $0.25
jbdb3: posts big blind $0.50
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to jbdb3 [8d 3c]
Player 2: folds
Player 3: calls $0.50
Player 4: folds
Player 5: folds
Player 6: folds
Player 7: folds
Player 8: folds
Player 1: folds
jbdb3: checks
*** FLOP *** [3h 3s 8c]
jbdb3: checks
Player 3: bets $1
jbdb3: calls $1
*** TURN *** [3h 3s 8c] [7s]
jbdb3: bets $1
Player 3: calls $1
*** RIVER *** [3h 3s 8c] [7s] [Qh]
jbdb3: bets $3
Player 3: folds

I don't think I maximised the amount I could of made on this hand.

This is my thought process;
Preflop-Never gonna raise.

The flop-Unless he has 88 I have the best hand. Therefore I need to let him catch up so check. (He bets). If I raise this could end the hand as his bet could of been a probe type bet. Therefore I just flat call.

The turn-Can't check-raise again, as it risks him not betting either, so I need to bet. There is $3.35 in the pot. If I bet more than half it suggests strength. I can't see this card helping him either so it's still got to be a small bet. $1 is probably slightly too small but I know he will call it, so I bet that. He calls

The river-$5.25 in the pot. This card has probably not helped him, so I'm just looking to maximise the most amount of value. I bet just over half the pot. He folds.

I'm thinking he didn't have much, so may be I did ok to extract $2 from him.

Thoughts?

[odlozilik]

Hard to say when we don't know what villain had.

[jimmer]

Hard to say when we don't know what villain had.

So, would you of played the same as me, or bet differently?

[miaowmiaowchowface]

this is terrible and ur thought process is really bad (typical fish c/c donk small line which means either a monster or a draw), i'll get back to why in a bit, just commenting, cant help myself

[jimmer]

this is terrible and ur thought process is really bad (typical fish c/c donk small line which means either a monster or a draw), i'll get back to why in a bit, just commenting, cant help myself

I am a fish. I've never pretened otherwise.

[xDiamond_CutteRx]

I would simply lead all three streets the majority of the time. If he has something, you get a shot at a call-down. If he doesn't, check-raising or otherwise tricky plays won't work anyway, and he has to have something REALLY good for you to get paid off with this line.

[odlozilik]

I think you can't win much here most of the time, maybe just if he limped with 99 or so, but you can suck out then instead, if he hits the set.

[Ciso_B]

lead every street is how i would play it , and only way you can expect to win a big pot, cant just check till river then fire off a 10x pot size bet and expect to get called right.

[HalfSugar]

this is terrible and ur thought process is really bad (typical fish c/c donk small line which means either a monster or a draw), i'll get back to why in a bit, just commenting, cant help myself

The stakes you play at and the stakes jimmer plays at require completely different strategy. Not many players at low limits are crazy dick swinging super-aggro players unlike you guys in the nosebleed section!

[Jernej Zorec]

thing is checking for them to catch up is silly pretty much
since all the hands that will give u loads of action will give it to you on the flop and u dont want to give those hands a free card
and check call on a board like that is more scary than to just lead out

they wont fold and 8, they wont fold an overpair, they will never fold the 3
so just bet out he either has it or he doesnt

i lead flop here 100% of the time doesnt matter if i have a hand or not,
and as u played u should bet bigger on turn, coz all hands mentioned above will pay you off as will any hand with 7, and prolly from some players they will put money in on turn if they got a flush draw, on the river a lot of those hands will not put in more money and i dont think he bluffs here unless hes really terrible and even then he will spaz on turn

[tame_deuces]

Lead flop unless you are VERY certain villain fall for what for most players will is a very obvious line.

[miaowmiaowchowface]

ok basically on the flop your evaluation is wrong " I need to let him catch up" "this could be a probe bet" ... wtf is a probe bet in position?


Instead of thinking this way you should decide upon the best way to get the money in. since youve been observing the player you should have a good grasp of his preflop tendencies and tightness, and assign him an according limping range.

If he's in line with most 50NL fish he'll be limping a wide variety of crappy hands, but you know how tight he is. Maybe he's limping only mid-pocket pairs- if thats the case you should be leading 3 streets b/c hes a weak tight fish he'll try to get to the showdown cheaply.

If he's limping strong hands then you should c/r 3barrel. If he's limping lots of hands and is overaggro u shud c/cc/cc/r. It's a relatively basic situation dependent upon your opponent andhis hand range in this type of spot.

a good standard line is to just bet bet bet or c/r3barrel, i wouldn't get FPS at these limits, its unneccessary and -EV

[jimmer]

ok basically on the flop your evaluation is wrong " I need to let him catch up" "this could be a probe bet" ... wtf is a probe bet in position?

He bet $1 on the flop. This could of been a probe bet? If i 3bet this he may instantly fold. I thought the best thing to do was call and then lead on the turn hoping his hand improves????

[JDRock]

This reminds me of a hand I saw Hellmuth play at the WSOP main event . . . 2005 I believe it was.

"I can't remember his name" has AA and Hellmuth has AK.

Pre-flop AA raises fairly large and Hellmuth who is on one of the blinds calls. He checks in the dark . . .

Flop comes 10-10-A.

Again, there is a full house for Player_Name on the flop. However, even having the action checked to him in the dark Mr. Pocket Aces checks and goes on to the turn.

The announcer touts that "he's been around the block a few times, checking with the nuts", however, I don't think that was the right play. The turn will explain why . . .

Turn is Q. Hellmuth puts in a bet and pocket Aces raises. What happened there was effectively a check raise, but with one more card showing Hellmuth starts assigning his opponent a hand in open discussion. He contemplates the possibility of him having hit Queens full on the turn, but it doesn't enter into his mind that his opponent could be holding Aces 3 and 4. Hellmuth ends up folding having assigned him Queens full.

One major problem with monster hands is that, contrary to psychological appeal, they rarely win more than common hands like top-pair top-kicker. The reason is that you're obviously only going to get action from someone with a decent hand and when you're holding a monster it makes it more improbable that your opponent holding a strong hand. The fourth card is less likely to be held by your opponent when you have a full house. The only thing a full house really does is wrap you in a security blanket. It doesn't really get you any more money, and part of the problem is that a lot of players think it should.

I'd bet that in your scenario, you'd still have had the best hand with just the 8. Given that, someone is very rarely going to be holding the 4th 8, and with both the third card on the board being so small and you holding the second one, it's not very likely that villian has paired it up with the third. So, the only real made hand you'd ever be betting against is a pocket-over pair. If that's the case, congratulate yourself on your luck, because he's probably not laying it down. Otherwise, just bet the flop and hope he thinks you're weak.

In the case with the hand Hellmuth played, I bet dollars to donuts that he would've called a bet on the flop, possibly even raised. That being the case, he's got to put his opponent on either the 3rd 10 and/or the third and fourth Aces to lay it down. Much more difficult than putting your opponent on either that or pocket Queens after the turn shows. On the other hand, if Hellmuth's not holding A-high kicker then he's not calling one cent, not on the flop not on the turn, not ever. So, letting that street go without putting a bet in is probably wrong.

Just ask yourself these questions when you're thinking of letting your opponent "catch up" -

How likely is it that he'll hit a card on the turn that he'll bet but that still doesn't beat me? This is answered by the strength of the cards on the flop as well as the strength of your own hand. In your situation, a higher card than the 8 is almost certain to show so letting it go to the turn is probably right. In the Hellmuth scenario, nothing's higher than an A, so you're opponent either has top pair at the flop or he's folding the turn.


Another question - How much weaker are you really going to look having cold called at the flop and betting the turn than you would have by betting the flop? This is determined by the skill level of the player you're up against. If he's skilled, he's more likely to take your cold call and bet on the turn as a sign of strength.

[gumbie]

I cr these flops from the blinds far too often, so i might as well cr when i have a hand too.

In your case I think bet bet betting is prolly better.