A ruling please

[HalfSugar]

I was in a home game last night and took a horrible beat very early after getting all-in pre-flop with AA and being called by TT (T on the flop).

I was down to not many chips and not too long after, I picked up 64o in the BB. UTG and MP called the BB so I checked and flop was 235. I went all-in, the UTG player called and another player went all-in over the top. UTG called and they showed A4 for the wheel and J3 for a flush draw.

The dealer was a bit of a donk to say the least and with the deck sat on the table, he burnt a card and then ham-fistedly grabbed the top three cards instead of the top one and turned them all over. Why he did this I do not know and everyone ragged on him for it but the bottom line is that two of them were the suit the guy needed for the flush so regardless of the shitty dealing, he would have made his flush since only one of the three would be a burn card.

At the time I wondered whether there would be a ruling if it were a casino game but as it was a home game, I smiled through gritted teeth and busted.

I wasn't going to write anything until I saw this on a live WSOP update at PokerNews:

Steve Seidman was all-in with pocket tens against pocket sevens. With his tournament life at stake, Seidman was devastated when a seven fell on the flop. But, should it have been there? The dealer accidentally dealt a four-card flop, and Seidman called the floor for a ruling on what to do about the flop. When the floor staff arrived, everyone at the table pointed out that it was quite obvious that the seven was part of the three-card flop, regardless of the dealer's mistake.

However, it was ruled for the cards to be reshuffled and a new flop dealt, much to the dislike of the player holding pocket sevens.

So does anyone know whether the same would apply in my situation? Strictly speaking should we have mucked the three cards he turned over at once, shuffled and re-dealt the turn card, third burn card and the river card?

I would never ask for it in a home game, I just wondered whether there was a ruling here?

[Adamm]

I can't believe that news blurb you quoted. The WSOP is so inconsistent that it makes me angry.
Anyway, I've seen two misdealt flops in the last month here. One was in a WSOP tournament where the dealer flopped four cards instead of three. Everyone agreed which card was the fourth off the deck and it was simply made an exposed card (it might have been the burn for the turn, can't remember).
The other one was in a non-WSOP cash game, and again everyone agreed which was the fourth card, but the floor made them reshuffle the four cards back in and redeal a flop.
So I guess the answer is: Argue for whichever decision gives you +EV. If that doesn't work, say that the guy with the flush draw touched his cell phone.

[jimmer]

I would suggest the answer reflects on two simple words...... "home game".

However I think in our home games we would probably call this a "bum deal" and re-deal.

As reguards the WSOP, I can't believe there's not a rule reguarding this issue. I know a lot comes down to the interpitation of the floor manager or torny director, but surely there's a standard set of rules and reg's which they adhere too.

[HalfSugar]

I just saw this - thanks for the replies.

I guess in the home game, I was in no position to argue a misdeal because of the fact that it was my first time at this game and I am definitely looking to get invited back as it should be a money maker!

[HalfSugar]

So I went to this same home game, albeit with only one player the same as last time and again, I had a truly nasty run of luck. Allow me to regale:

We started 7 handed with 1800 chips and blinds of 10/20. Levels were 45mins with the next two at 20/40 and 30/60 (not my rules!) so there was a shit load of play to be had here.

In the first 20mins I rolled over the table and was up to about 2500 chips without any effort at all. The only player I rated was the guy directly to my right who is the guy who got me into this game. He is very aggressive but knows when to get out of a pot he can't win.

So horrible hand #1 - I picked up TT in MP. My aggressive buddy popped it to 100 and I made it 300 to go. The player on the button who had played one hand all night outside the blinds and folded a large pot on the river re-popped it to 700. From the little I knew of him, I had to put him on KK or AA here. Mr Aggressive called the 600 raise to him and I called the 300, rightly or wrongly. The pot was offering me 7 to 1 which is short of the 8 to 1 I was after and with other factors at play, it was possibly a poor call.

Before calling my head was telling me to fold. If I had the tight player on a PP higher than tens, even if I flopped a ten, it had to be the high card on the board for me to feel good about my set and at the same time, any straight draw I could flop could have already given Mr Tight a set. I had Mr Agressive on a middle PP or high suited connectors which again didn't help my straight or set chances if he was holding a range from about 9-J.

So whatever my brain said, my hand reached for 300 chips and called. The flop came KJ9. Mr Agressive checked, I checked and Mr Tight bet 200. This reeked of a feeler bet with QQ or a slow played set of Jacks or Kings. Mr Aggressive called so I called with the pot offering me a shade over 13 to 1 (200/2630).

The turn was a Q which gave me the straight I was fishing for. Mr Aggressive bet 400, I pushed and Mr Tight made the crying call. Mr Aggressive folded 77 face up and Mr Tight flipped KK.

Obviously the board paired when the river was a 9 and I shipped him about 60% of my stack. Ug.

Left with about 1,000 chips, I was by no means in bad shape but I was a bit irked about losing that hand.

Ugly hand #2 - within 10 minutes I picked up 87o on the button and called an unraised bet to see a 5-way flop of K87. The player UTG who had 700 chips at this point bet the pot and it folded round to me. I made it another 200 to go, he pushed and I insta-called. He showed TT. The turn card was a T which crippled me to 290 chips. Great days.

I busted 10mins later shoving AJ into Q9 which flopped QXX and it was game over again.


Arguably in the first ugly hand I was the master of my own downfall but at the point of showdown, I was a 71% favourite so I felt a bit agrieved when the board paired.

In hand #2 I was also a 71% favourite and obviously hand #3 was close.

I'll keep going back to this game since my bad luck cannot continue for long. All of the players can play a bit but no-one plays well so it should be a goldmine if lady luck will stop ass raping me