A tough limit question

[nicthestick]

Here is a Hypothetical for all the Limit pros out there.
SB: ??
BB: ??
3: ??
4: ??
5: ??
6: ??
7: ??
Hero: 45 hearts
9: ??
Button: ??
The limit is whatever, say 4/8....... 3 limpers when it gets to us, we call with the small suited cards, 9 folds, button calls, SB calls, BB, checks.
Preflop pot size: 7 bets
Flop is A spades, 8 hearts, 2 hearts.
The SB bets, BB calls, 3 folds, 4 calls, 5 calls.
THE QUESTION IS .......If you think that someone else is on a flush draw, do you raise in this spot? I think that by forcing draws to call a 2 bet and possibly a 3 bet will shorten their pot odds enough to justify folding.
Any thoughts?

[Dave B]

I would fold 45 of hearts in 95% of hands. 89 is my usual cut off for suited connecters unless I am on a nice roll, even then I will only call one bet.

In your case, I may call. Late position, 3 limpers, not a great chance for a raise behind me, I may want to see a flop.

Flop comes w/ me having a nut gutshot str8 and a weak flush draw. If someone in later position bets, I might make it 2 bets right to get some folders. But w/ the small blind betting and everyone calling so far, I dont see a raise scaring anyone off. If I do raise, it is with the hope of seeing a free card after the turn if I miss.

3 on the turn or river, then I am in control (obviously).

Any heart and I likely am real careful. I will probably just call if I make my flush on the turn. Then raise if the 4th heart doesnt come on the river.

If the 3rd heart comes on the river, then I raise once. Call any reraise but if my raise is met by a 4 bet when it gets to me again, then I will likely fold.

[nicthestick]

The question is really related to when you are on a small flush draw, and are quite sure that someone else is on a bigger one. By forcing them to call a 2 or 3 bet, will you chase them off if they are any kind of player? I know that it messes up your pot odds, but if you are going to lose when you hit anyway, isint this a way to possibly win the pot?

[Dave B]

I think that if you were making them call 2 bets, then you might have an arguement. But in your example, everyone had already called the early bet, so I dont see your raise getting them off of a decent size pot.

If someone in late position was the 1st better, and you 2 bet right behind them, then a blind w/ k 7 suited might not want to call 2 bets.

[nicthestick]

Now what if the SB made it 3 bets?

[Dave B]

In NL I assume? Probably not, you would probably have to bet more than pot to push someone off a hand w/ 2:1 odds if they have the likely winner. If you can put them all in for less than pot, then they may cave, but that is a dangerous game unless you have a big stack.

Something simliar happened to me last night. 20NL SNG in late position. I had 750TC 4 player pot KJ suited diamonds. Flop was 10d 7d 2c. Blind bets min, guy in front of me raises to 125, I reraise to 250 (believing that he didnt have anything, just trying to steal). Everyone folds he calls. Turn 3c, junk for me, he goes all in for 500TC.

W/ a 100 bet and 400 pot preflop, I had 350 in the hand, 400 remaining, and now staring at a pot of 1300 for my 400 to call. I figured that I had 9 outs for the flush, 3 for the jack, and 3 for the king. Since he didnt reraise my 250 bet I put him on a top pair-even 2 pair and w/ the 3s on the board I have a higher 2 pair if the J or K hit.

I called, hit the 3 diamonds on the river. Made my flush! He had 22, smallest boat for the win.

It was early in the tourney and a crap shoot hand. I would rather take a shot early than with 4 or 5 remaining. At least I didnt waste time for nothing, I just threw money away. Also-I was up $150 on 3/6 on the other table and had won a $20 SNG that just finished-so I wanted to get a big stack or go to bed w/ my profits.