Against the rules?

[charlidontsurff]

So I'm playing no-limit in some basement with a bunch of people I know, I'm small blind. Five people call the bet, then I call, then the guy in the big blind raises a dollar. Everyone folds except for me, and I raise him four dollars (he's all-in). Now it's just me and him. He thinks about this for a long time, debating with himself, actually getting ready to fold, then another person at the table says "turn over your cards" so he shows everyone at the table his cards, (KQ suited,) and everyone at the table tells him right away to call. So he does, and the board comes out and he wins. IS IT JUST ME OR IS THIS RIDICULOUS? He exposed his cards before he made a decision, and he got outside help from everyone at the table. I think I should get my money back, but everyone keeps bullsh--ting me. Am I right in saying that his actions were against the rules?

[golddog]

I'm not sure it's against the rules to expose your cards when you have the only action left on the table, but it was definitely unethical of the people not involved in the hand to give advice.

One thing we'll do occassionally when someone has an interesting decision is to keep those cards on the side (if they fold it), and then have a group discussion AFTER THE HAND IS OVER about the pot odds and strategy involved.

[Fat Tony]

this should NOT be allowed. you should have raised a big stink at the time.....it's kinda late now to do anything, but i would clear this issue up before playing with those guys again. if they insist on allowing this kind of thing, i would find another game.

[SillyPuppy]

I'm with Tony. That's the most ridiculous thing I'd ever heard of.

I'll be the first to admit that myself and the guys I play with are not experts, but if there's one thing we do right, it's that we respect the rules of the game enough not to tolerate crap like that. No one at my game would EVER consider doing that. Ditch those guys who can't figure their own hands out for themselves, and find some new fish.

(Sorry for the rant, I just found out that the house has termites, and I'm gonna be out about $2500. I am NOT in a good mood )

[nicthestick]

I think the proper response was to ask dude "Do you need help deciding on which hand to unzip with as well?" My God!!!!!

[charlidontsurff]

Yeah that's what I thought. It's happened before but I've never been at the butt of it so I didn't really care. I b*tched a lot but it was a few minutes after I lost. Obviously everyone helping him out is a flagrant violation of everything, I'm also wondering is just turning over his cards by itself bad? It's against the rules in casinos because of hidden signals, etc. but I'm wondering do you guys take this rule that seriously if you're not playing in Casinos and are just in a pickup game? THis happens a lot to me, I raise after the river, and the one guy left turns his cards over before he makes his decision and sees how I react. Obviously this isn't AS big a deal, but still I think it shouldn't be done.

[nicthestick]

Turning your cards over to elicit a reaction is a good play imo. Asking for help is a chump move. any player who offers help needs to playoff the loser of the pot. Play with your own cards, not your buddies.

[Fat Tony]

your mistake was bitching AFTER, when you needed to do it BEFORE the hand was decided because then they think it's sour grapes when you say something after the fact even thou what happened was absolute b.s.

[charlidontsurff]

Yeah I know. I was concentrating too much on the hand itself, trying not to give any tells, so I wasn't saying anything. And I was bluffing and was nervous. Anyway, I guess I stand corrected on the exposing of the cards before you call or fold.

[BrianGre]

actually the turning over of the cards itself may have constituted a dead hand in some houses... there have been other threads here about talking crap vs. telling the truth...

if you turn them over, then you're telling the truth about your hand; and this was bad...

I remember something about this in the WSOP for last year... the table was with Cloutier and someone I didn't know

[JohnnyCache]

If there's no bet to your opponent, I think you can do just about anything to get a reaction out of them while deciding to fold . . . but you should have leaned over and kicked the advice giver's chair out from under him.

[Dave B]

what was your hand?

[charlidontsurff]

J8 suited. And a jack came out on the flop, but then the other guy paired kings on the turn.

[Adamm]

If he shows his hand to someone else who was involved with the hand it's dead. Even if they don't say anything (I think because he could try and gauge their reaction).
The other players had knowledge of what cards wouldn't be coming up, because they folded some of them. That knowledge can't be shared with an active player.
If for some ridiculous reason someone folded a pair of kings they could base the decision on the fact that a king would be less likely to come up. Or, especially in your case, the other players didn't have a king or queen, so they thought his chance of getting one would be better.
As soon as he showed his hand, his hand would be ruled dead. You should've won right there.
They screwed you. Go back there and crack some skulls.

[racquet000]

This has happend to me before. When i raised one guy all in. He had low chips i was ok but not great. I had ak and he had kq he showed other people his hand as he was going to fold but they talked him into calling. Sure i didnt care. But then he one. I just said f*ck you all laughed and blew it out my ass. Its tough but if you dont do something before hand then theres nothing more you can do after . Whats done is done.