another question

[duke]

Sorry but I havn't quite got my head around the all in. lets say

Player 1- 500 chips
Player 2 - 500 chips
Player 3 - 1000 chips
Player 4 - 20 chips

If player 4 calls all in after seeing the 2 hole cards
Player 1 has to call all in to match the 20, as well as the possiblity of having to matching Player 2 & 3 if they go all in or does he get that chance to decide once Player 2 &3 decide.

bear with me

duke

[Dave B]

Need more info.

If player 4 goes all in with his 20, all of the other players can call the 20 bet. If the blinds are more than 20, say 100, then they would need to put in at least 100 to call the 20 all in bet. However, player 4 could only win 20 of that 100 bet.

If you are asking if one player goes all in, do the others have to put in all their chips to call-then the answer is no. If they have more than the all in bet, they can simply call the amount of the shorter stacks all in bet.

[Poker_Vendetta]

Um, yes...If player 4 goes all-in, any player who wants to play only has to call 20 unless it is raised. If there are more than two-players in the pot, they will compete for the side-pot, the pot that is being played between those two while the all-in player contains his cards face down. Now if the player with 1,000 went all-in any one who wanted to call would also have to go all-in so it would be possible for him to win if he had AA and knocked everyone out. If player 4 goes all-in with twenty, and someone with 520 goes all-in, he is re-raising TO 520..he is calling the 20 so 500-20 then raising 500, you would have to go all-in with 500, but if you are really low of chips you CAN JUST GO ALL-IN ANYWAY EVEN IF YOU HAVE MORE CHIPS TO JUST BE COMMITED, JUST IF ANYONE WITH MORE CHIPS THAN YOU CALLS YOU DO NOT REALLY HAVE TO WORRY. UNDERSTAND? I hope you understand.

[Silencer]

The other guys explained it but sometimes it helps to have different examples so here I go. Let us assume that the pot is already 200 in size from previous betting rounds where each player had put in 50 chips. Now this round of betting player 4 goes all-in, putting 20 chips in the pot for this round.

Pot 1: 220 Chips (200 from previous rounds + 20 bet)

If player 1 wants he can fold, call, or raise. If he only wants to call he only needs to put in 20 chips. The same goes for the rest of the players (assuming each one calls in turn), they only need to call 20 chips to stay in. All of this goes into the main pot like normal, which any player can win. Let us assume that player 1 just calls the 20 (and now has 480 chips left).

Pot 1: 240 Chips (220 + 20 call)

Player 2 decides to go in which is like raising to 500. 20 of these chips go into the main pot to call the bet that player 4 made. The remaining 480 chips go into a second pot though. This is because you can only win what you bet (from each player) and player 4 is already all-in so he can't put more chips in the pot to call the raise. He can't win these extra chips so they go into another pot.

Pot 1: 260 Chips (previous 240 + 20 call)
Pot 2: 480 Chips (remainder of player 2's chips after calling 20 for pot 1)

Now player 3 gets to decide. He also goes all-in. Like player 2, 20 of his chips go to the first pot. 480 of his chips go to pot 2 to call the remaining 480 bet from player 2. The remaining 500 chips go into a third pot, but since nobody can call this last 500 he is the only player who can win it so he'll get it back nomatter what happens.

Pot 1: 280 Chips (previous 260 + 20 call)
Pot 2: 960 Chips (previous 480 + 480 call)
Pot 3: 500 Chips (remainder of player 3's chips after calling other bets)

Player 4 is already all-in so he can't do anymore so it goes back to player 1. Player 1 already called the bet of 20 that player 4 made and since the total bet is now 1000 (since player 3 went all-in) he either has to fold or go all-in himself. Let's say that he calls all-in with his remaining 480 chips. Since he already called the bet of 20 from player 4 his remaining 480 chips go to pot 2 in order to match the bet that player 2 made. The pots end up looking like this.

Pot 1: 280 Chips
Pot 2: 1440 Chips (previous 950 + 480 call)
Pot 3: 500 Chips

If player 3 wins the hand he gets it all, the other players are knocked out and the game is over. If player 1 or 2 wins, they get both pots, because they called the bets for both of those pots. The chips from pot 3 would go back to player 3 because nobody could call that bet and you can only win what you bet. Now if player 4 wins it gets a little more tricky.

If player 4 wins the hand he can only win pot 1. Since he didn't put money into the other pots he cannot win them. Pot 3 goes back to player 3, like before. Pot 2 is still available though. Pot 2 will go to whoever has the best hand between players 1, 2 and 3 (since all three of these players called the bet for that pot).

At first it seems really complicated but if I explained it decently you can see how easy it really is. You can only win as much as you bet (from each player) and having multiple pots is the best way to handle this.[/b]

[duke]

Thanks that explains it.

One more,

if the bet is 50 and I only have 20 I assume I have to fold. The only way I can stay is to be first to call all in?

duke

[Silencer]

You can always call nomatter what. If the bet is more than you can call you can still call, but you have to go all-in, and if you win you can only win as much as you've bet.

Say the pot is 200 and somebody bets 100. It's just you and him and you only have 20 chips left. Even though you don't have enough chips to cover his bet of 100 you can still call by going all-in, but you can only win as much as you bet (from each player). This is exactly why multiple pots exist. You end up with something like this.

Pot 1: 240 Chips (Original 200 + your 20 + 20 from his bet to match your call)
Pot 2: 80 Chips (the remaining chips from his bet after putting 20 into the first pot to match your call)

You didn't put any money into pot 2 and you have no claim to it. Since it's just the two of you he automatically wins pot 2. Pot 1 you can win though, which is your call of 20 plus 20 from him plus the pot from the previous rounds. If you win you get the 240 chips but if you lose, you are out, you lose.

That's why having a large stack is such an advantage in games like this. You can force anyone with less chips than you to fold or go all-in. You are limiting the amount of choices they have which can really give you an advantage. Just remember that you can always call any bet but you can only win (from each player) as much as you yourself put into the pot.

[duke]

Thanks again for all your help.

duke