bluff line...

[Ciso_B]

I'm newish to table, i felt like this was a reasonable spot to c/r and rep a 2 or spades. Since noyone raised pf , its unlikely anyone has any stronger than 6s/7s here , if the guy on the button had called this c/r id strongly consider giving up cos id be thinkng he likely flopped 4s full... On the turn I thought he will likely fold small pairs, but obv he can have a flush, so i decided on just under 1/2 pot and give up on river,unless maybe a 4 came.

I wont say what villain had or did on river, but needless to say lost the pot , but , that aside, is this total spew or do we think its ok?

Thoughts ?

PokerStars Game #44090427162: Tournament #2010050311, $20+$2 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level VIII (100/200) - 2010/05/14 16:19:30 ET
Table '2010050311 878' 9-max Seat #2 is the button
Seat 1: sebwin (7555 in chips)
Seat 2: hillydog (18213 in chips)
Seat 3: Zerafine (1795 in chips)
Seat 4: Neab (21411 in chips)
Seat 5: stackanroll (19915 in chips)
Seat 6: manomaxx (9605 in chips)
Seat 7: gorams10 (17996 in chips)
Seat 8: squallz (21412 in chips)
Seat 9: ole6 (13744 in chips)
sebwin: posts the ante 25
hillydog: posts the ante 25
Zerafine: posts the ante 25
Neab: posts the ante 25
stackanroll: posts the ante 25
manomaxx: posts the ante 25
gorams10: posts the ante 25
squallz: posts the ante 25
ole6: posts the ante 25
Zerafine: posts small blind 100
Neab: posts big blind 200
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Neab [8c 3c]
stackanroll: folds
manomaxx: folds
gorams10: calls 200
squallz: folds
ole6: folds
sebwin: folds
hillydog: calls 200
Zerafine: calls 100
Neab: checks
*** FLOP *** [2d 4s 2s]
Zerafine: checks
Neab: checks
gorams10: bets 600
hillydog: calls 600
Zerafine: folds
Neab: raises 1700 to 2300
gorams10: calls 1700
hillydog: folds
*** TURN *** [2d 4s 2s]
Neab: bets 3000
gorams10: calls 3000
*** RIVER *** [2d 4s 2s Js]
Neab: checks

[miaowmiaowchowface]

flops bad, need to shove river really

[jimmer]

I don't get it.

You are newish to the table so presumably have little information on anyone else, check-raise two opponents which 1. surely is twice the amount of players you want to c/r with a bluff and 2. both who could do some damage to your stack if they fight back and then above all, continue your front by betting into someone when the third spade hit after seeing them call your c/r on the flop with another player still to act after them.

What makes you think they are going away on the turn?

Let's put it another way; gorams10 lets you see a flop for free, leads out against 3 other players and then calls your re-raise. Is he really going away?

It just doesn't make sense to me. Am i missing something?

[Ciso_B]

Im gonna try condense this jimmer to explain my thoughts at time if i can -

1- 2 limpers and its 224, now, common sense dictates here noyone has much better than like 7s rly, how agresssive klonk players are, you wont see much better.

2- they have no clue what i have, and im in the blinds, so its very plausible i have 2x, and people generally wont assume i'm bluffing in this spot, they rly won't.


3- I'm taking 1 punt on turn, my thoughts when he calls my c/r on flop is this - he has 55-88 or the spade draw. When I lead turn,he's calling flushes, im aware of that,im not gonna try bluffing rivers vs klonk players cos they wont fold flushes.
He will fold those pairs tho imo, cos either i have 2x or a flush draw here or a random spazzo bluff (which i dont think they will think i have much tbh), so my thoughts on turn are, i dont need to bet too much, if he has those pairs , 3k into 6.2k will do the job, and hes calling anything with flush.
Now, had the guy who flatted , called the c/r and the other guy folded, I'd be even more prudent and c/f turn/river suspecting a rly nh. But the initial bettor doesn't need 4s full to bet and call, and he almost never shows up with 2x cos ppl dont limp 2x from early position.


Those were my thoughts in real time, as it happened, i chked river, and he chked back ! with a flush, a ten high flush. Now , my contention is rly with whether check raising flop is wise or not. I obviously aint retarded enough to bet bet bet here, despite deldar's idea i should shove river, i have news for ya mate, they dont fold flushes.
Check raising flop 4 way on 224 in limped pot from the blinds,is it too spewy? Quite possibly imo, but eh f*ck it.

[miaowmiaowchowface]

flop is bad because one of them is gonna call either way. Then you have the turn cards which you won't get them to fold anything on. Overpairs, draws, not going away. When the spade comes they probably have OP + fd often enough, so you have to bluff the river. They may also have bare 2's which you might get a fold out of. Then again, you could just fold the flop.