Botched AA Line Check

[xDiamond_CutteRx]

$1/$3 game. Hero has about $380 to start the hand, and covers all but the BB (a bad loose player). Either the CO, the button, or the BB (the players in those positions, not the positions themselves) have raised the last seven pots in a row.

Hero limps for $3 with [As Ah]. All other players limp. Pre-flop pot: $21.

Flop: [7c 3d 3s].
Blinds check. Hero bets $10. Next player (typical loose passive live donk) raises to $20 (about $140 behind). All fold to hero. Hero folds.

I cannot see a single hand a passive player raises here that does not include a 3. Can I possibly face another bet with this hand?

[miaowmiaowchowface]

I wouldn't let up so easily, call and call a smallish bet on the turn then give up imo. remember, if you catch an ace too you'll probably stack him

[Muck]

You didn’t raise pre-flop and you made a ½ pot bet on the flop. I don’t see why someone couldn’t make a squeeze play on you here with a couple of good overs or A7, 78, 67.

I’m only fearing the 3 if you call and the SB or BB check/re-raises to $40. I know you said the guy’s loose but how many (3)(X) hands could he limp with? Plus the board is a rainbow and pretty spread out so I’d have though most 3’s would just call here, especially with position on the Turn.

if you catch an ace too you'll probably stack him

Agree but I think the odds on hitting it are so small that it shouldn’t weigh too much in the decisions unless they’re both very deep.

[Kemics]

could be a pocket pair too that he wanted to play for trip-value and has ended up with an over-pair. If they are as aggressive as you say you could possible stack them with 88-99 thinking they've got some suited broadway cards dominated.

i dont know if this is full ring or 6 max but i cant put a 3 in his pre-flop range

77 or 33 i imagine would slow play. Only hand that has us beat is A3s.

Also on a dry board like that, no straights, no flushes. If he's picked up trips why not let someone catch some cards and bust themselves. To me it looks like someone with A7 trying to get some info and how good their hand is.

[Jauron]

You don't think 88+ or A7 fits his range? I'd be tempted to take a card and lead into him again if an over card comes.

I don't really mind a fold here given how it was played preflop. I'm just wondering if he traps often and if so why isn't he doing it here.

[supafrey]

You don't think 88+ or A7 fits his range? I'd be tempted to take a card and lead into him again if an over card comes.

If you think overpairs and A7 are a significant part of their range, why are you leading into them if an overcard comes.

[blah730235]

You don't think 88+ or A7 fits his range?

I don't think these fit his range because...

Either the CO, the button, or the BB (the players in those positions, not the positions themselves) have raised the last seven pots in a row.

They probably would have raised preflop with these.

[blah730235]

You don't think 88+ or A7 fits his range?

I don't think these fit his range because...

Either the CO, the button, or the BB (the players in those positions, not the positions themselves) have raised the last seven pots in a row.

They probably would have raised preflop with 88+ or A7.



-For this same reason I think it's safe to also cross off 77 from his range.

I like the lay down, you tried to trap with your hand and your willing to let it go when it did not work. If your read is good (which i'm almost positive it is) a weak-passive player betting with confidence is a good hand. I really don't see alot of passive players also playing passive with good hands. I want to stab here and say 90% of the time 3x turns up if you went to showdown.

[Jauron]

You don't think 88+ or A7 fits his range?

I don't think these fit his range because...

Either the CO, the button, or the BB (the players in those positions, not the positions themselves) have raised the last seven pots in a row.

They probably would have raised preflop with these.

I could have misunderstood his post but I don't think this "passive" player is in any of those spots, if he is surely he can't be passive having raised that often?

[Jauron]

You don't think 88+ or A7 fits his range? I'd be tempted to take a card and lead into him again if an over card comes.

If you think overpairs and A7 are a significant part of their range, why are you leading into them if an overcard comes.

Yeah I know I'm forcing him to play correctly by representing the big card but after thinking about it I decided I'd rather get information on the turn than to have to check/fold if he fires again.

Check calling another bet on the turn seems bad, check folding against a guy who'd only bet the 3 on the turn would be fine... but I don't have enough info to tell if he's that kind of player.

I'm mostly getting confused about this guy being passive but not real trappy, as my experience is they tend to be both.

I can't decide if folding the flop is better than taking a card, and if we do take a card do we just give up if he bets again?

[xDiamond_CutteRx]

can't decide if folding the flop is better than taking a card, and if we do take a card do we just give up if he bets again?

That was the quandary I wished to avoid, so I just folded. I have made a rule for myself: I can never call a bet if I do not have a reasonable strategy for the next street, preferably the whole hand.

It might be a close decision, but I did not wish to play heads-up, out of position, against a guy who I have NEVER seen make a move at a pot, facing a turn bet that will potentially cross the commitment threshold. To me, the negatives of calling greatly outweighed the negatives of folding in a small pot.

I think about it this way: if I get what I want, the pot will not get much bigger anyway. If the pot does get bigger, there is a largely increasing chance that I am behind. That's not a good spot to be in unless a miracle rolled off on the turn.

[Ensano]

i say villian could easily have a PP...

i don't think the fold is bad... live.. i say 50/50 you're WA/WB...

with the min raise though... maybe seeing the turn wouldn't be such a bad idea... getting 3:1..

over hit and you check... he checks behind you can feel comfortable with your hand... but if he bets big you didn't really risk all that much to see that 1 card...

[Gunslinger]

I agree with others that an overpair or A7 is definitely in his range. I think any 3x or other monster would smooth call the flop, trying to invite others in.

You called the villain a "typical loose passive live donk". I played a hand against exactly this type this weekend live at the casino. I limp in LP behind a bunch of limpers with 65s, button (another typical loose passive live donk) limps, everyone sees a flop of 665. Cha ching! There's an EP bet and a call, I smooth call, button min-raises. Everyone calls back to me, I basically announce my hand by putting in a big re-raise, figuring whoever had the case 6 would stack off here (we all had big stacks). Only the button calls, and then he calls my all-in on the blank turn with...JJ.

I like your overall plan, Diamond, to try to keep yourself out of tough situations. But you know as well as I how BAD some of these live players can be. Even if you haven't seen him make a move, if you classify him as a live donk, you have to widen his range.

You have massively underrepresented your hand, and peeling one off won't cost you too much, and still won't bring you to the commitment threshold yet.

[xDiamond_CutteRx]

Here is what Bart Hanson had to say about it:

Dave,

I think you have the right thinking with your line playing this hand.
However I think you giving up a little too much equity by just folding. I
think that you can call and see what happens. If the hand continues and
he bets again I still may call. The real kicker is at showdown. If he
bets the river you are definitely beat. However he may make this move
with 88-TT just like you thought. I don't see a lot of guys fastplaying
this hand on a rainbow board at these levels.

bart

Maybe I just get scared off too easy by RIO, but I really don't see passive guys at this club raise here without a really strong hand, especially a min-raise. I don't necessarily see them fastplay either, though... maybe I just folded because I was mad my plan didn't work and I was convinced to only lose $13 instead of more.

[Ensano]

i don't think laying down AA here is a mistake... but there are maybe some better options...