Buying pots with big stack

[Absolution]

Have you ever noticed how online players go into this automatic mode when they are the big stack where they try and buy almost every pot. They limp in and then make about a half pot sized bet to see where they are. If everybody checks they do it again. And again on the river. I love these guys, they are free money and basically free cards since they always give you odds to draw to just about anything. Usually on the end you can double their bet if you hit and they will call too.

[feverpa]

how is this giving you odds to draw to anything???

if the blinds are 50/100... and you have 4 limpers including the big stack...

that's 400 in pot... and if he puts 200 more in the pot... you now have to put in 200 to win 600... 3-1 odds isn't good enough for many draws... and if he ups this to about 3/4 pot size... or bigger... you absolutly don't have odds to draw

you say this is free money... but you better have something... because if you put giant portions of your stack at risk on a draw... it will bust you sooner or later...

it's better to draw against multiple bettors.. than one big one...

[Absolution]

Don't forget about the implied odds. These guys will fire again on the river and even call a reraise (there's also a very good chance they will fold on the end to a substantial raise if you think they are weak). Also, they are obviously bluffing too much so you have good odds to draw to even mediocre hands. The only danger is they have disguised their good hands.

[feverpa]

Also, they are obviously bluffing too much so you have good odds to draw to even mediocre hands.

(alt+q)

whether or not a player is bluffing has nothing to do with odds...

the spirit of your original message isn't too far off base... if a big stack raises a big amount.. he's probably playing A-K, A-Q, A-J..... and if you call him with someting like 10-9 suited... you have two live cards... and if you hit one... with nothing higher on the board... you've likely got the big stack beat... but if he's firing big ammunition at the pot... and I haven't hit anything yet... it's silly to call... and I DO NOT have the odds... you can explain it anyway you want... but calling BIG bets on a draw isn't smart..

you can say that implied odds improve your situation... but not if it's down to just you two, and his bet sizes are huge... you'll still be putting a lot of money into a pot that is probably only 5 or 6 times bigger than your bet... and many draws aren't worth that...

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[Absolution]

Umm, I think bluffing does have to do with odds. You can add in the % chance you feel he will fold to improve your odds. That's precisely the reason semi-bluffs are profitable.

[feverpa]

understood...

you're not wrong... I just don't think of it that way... but you are not incorrect....

to me... the chance that he'll fold to a re-raise isn't part of considering "odds" on the hand...

I think of those two issues as separate... but maybe I shouldn't... I'm just not good at combining two different concepts into one single idea of odds... so I consider them separately...

based on the player, and his previous play, stack size, position, etc... I consider how likely it is that he's bluffing, and that he'll lay down to a re-raise... but I consider the pot odds separately... just me... trying to combine those factors confuse me... maybe that's a weakness in my game.

[Absolution]

Well, it's hard to figure that kind of stuff out in your head without a lot of practice, but you can learn some rules to help (i.e. given 50% chance he will fold, figure out how it affects the odds). But, if it's a close call based on odds alone and you figure there's even a small chance (maybe 25%) he will fold, it often becomes a profitable play to raise.