calculating out odds / pot odds

[sdlangers]

hi,

ive read that in a limit game (especially online ones) your odds of making an out and the pot odds are very important.

so - if i have AK pre flop - and i want to work out my odds of making a pair - should i only take the top pair (i.e. Aces) or should i work out my chances of making either pair?

where im getting at is say i have AK preflop - there are 3 outs to make a pair of aces and 3 outs to make a pair of kings - so there are 6 outs of making either pair - this seems like it would be ok since either pair would be pretty good.

however if i had A2 preflop - then i'd still have 6 outs to make either pair - but pairing 2s wouldnt be very useful to me.

so i'm wondering how to work this into the calculation

[vegasholdem]

How to play A2 offsuit in Limit:
-you Don't want to flop top pair with such a weak kicker! Trap Hand!
-you want to flop 4straight draw or 2 pair!
-Preflop...u should only play this hand in Late Position with 6 or more callers!

Follow those guidelines and you'll be the mathmatical winner!

[Sean_in_NJ]

hi,

ive read that in a limit game (especially online ones) your odds of making an out and the pot odds are very important.

so - if i have AK pre flop - and i want to work out my odds of making a pair - should i only take the top pair (i.e. Aces) or should i work out my chances of making either pair?

where im getting at is say i have AK preflop - there are 3 outs to make a pair of aces and 3 outs to make a pair of kings - so there are 6 outs of making either pair - this seems like it would be ok since either pair would be pretty good.

however if i had A2 preflop - then i'd still have 6 outs to make either pair - but pairing 2s wouldnt be very useful to me.

so i'm wondering how to work this into the calculation

Calculating outs and pot odds preflop generally isn't very helpful. You either have the best hand or you don't, and the next 3 cards could make or break any hand. It's once the flop comes down that you need to start doing the math. Take your example of the A2. You only mention the 6 cards that will pair your hand. Are the cards suited? Then flopping a 4 flush gives you 9 outs to the nuts. Did you pair your deuces on a 862 rainbow flop? Maybe the 22 is good and you still have an overcard to the board. Flop comes 345 and you have a straight, but you can't be too happy with the ass-end of it.

If you have AK preflop and the flop comes AQQ, your pair of aces doesn't look so good anymore and those six outs you counted before the flop would be down to 2 (or 4 on the river if a K falls on the turn). Basically, I think your assessment is far too simplistic for a point that early in the hand.

The other thing I seem to read once a week is that pot odds aren't as important in NL. I couldn't disagree more. The difference is the onus for calculating the odds falls on the bettor and not the caller. As the holder of top pair top kicker with a flush draw or straight draw on the board, it's your obligation to know what hands can beat you and bet accordingly to make it mathematically incorrect for your opponent to call.

[vegasholdem]

The other thing I seem to read once a week is that pot odds aren't as important in NL. I couldn't disagree more. The difference is the [burden] for calculating the odds falls on the bettor and not the caller

Excellent Post!!!