Calculating Pot Odds Question?

[jim nayzium]

When there is 200 dollars in the pot, and you have to put in 10 to call, which would then put 210 dollars in the pot,

would you guys call that 20 to 1 pot odds or 21 to 1.

I feel like 190 in the pot with 10 to call making 200 equals 20 to 1 pot odds.

I know this only a small difference, I am just curious.

Cause on this website, the pot odds example says 50 dollars in the pot with 5 to call is 10x payout, but it doesn't say 10 to 1 pot odds...

Really putting in 5 to win 55 is an 11x payout isn't it????

Thanks.

[racquet000]

Think of it this way.....210:10 = 21:1 Thats how it should be what it is idk...lol

[Poker_Vendetta]

Yes you are in fact correct. If the guy bets 20 into a pot of 180, you would have 20: 200, or 1/10 pot odds. From that point (you may or may not know this) you would calculate how many OUTS or cards from the remaining deck you could catch to win...If you are a 6-1 shot to catch your club or straight card or what not you would be correct to call. Anyway...

[Sente]

That would be 20 to 1. Odds are a ratio (2 to 1, 4:1) of betting units. Even odds (1 to 1) means that both sides are wagering the same amount, say $1. The winner wins the pot of $2, for a profit of $1. 50-50 shot that you win a buck or lose a buck.

If the odds are 2 to 1, then you are wagering $1 to win $3 for a $2 profit. The other side (the opponent or the pot or the house) is taking the other of the bet and putting up the $2 (at odds of 1 to 2). The $2 + $1 makes the total pot $3.

In this example you are wagering $10 to win a pot of $200. The pot is offering you 20 to 1 odds. The two possible outcomes are either that you lose $10 or that you win the pot of $210. But since you put $10 into the pot, your net gain if you win is $200. The payoff ratio is $200 to $10 or 20 to 1. If you win this bet one time for every 20 times you lose, you break even. 20 losses at $10 each is $200, same as one win for $200.

If the pot were only $190, then you can either lose $10 or win $190. The odds are 19 to 1. Break even is winning once for every 19 losses, or once per 20 tries.

If there is already $50 in the pot and you bet $5 to win it, then you are getting 10 to 1 odds. The payout would be $55 or an 11x payout. The "X" or multiplier is not the same as odds. That example should read 10 to 1 odds and not 10x.

[jim nayzium]

Well now I am really confused. It would seem that one poster thinks I am correct and one doesn't.

I am not worried about the petty right or wrong, I want to play smart poker.

So, are you saying sente, that the money I wager into the pot is not part of the payout when I win, as far as calculating pot odds.???

Meaning, Pot size = 100 dollars, I put 10 to call, makeing the pot 110, I have 10-1 pot odds in this example. because I could loose this bet 10 times and win 1 and break even...that makes sense.

But the mulitplier confuses me on the win...Meaning, I put 10 in and when I win the pot, I don't get back 100, I get back 110, so really I invested 10 to win 110 or 11x my investment...Is this not the same as pot odds though...??


Going back to the loose 10 times for every one win argument....


Lets say I start with 200 dollars dedicated to this bet only.
If I loose this bet ten times in a row...I would be down 100 dollars...Then I win it on the eleventh bet after betting another 10, which makes my stack 90, by winning do I break even??? Yes because the pot would have 110 in it, so I am sitting right back at 200 in my stack.

So 10 to 1 is not a multiplier at all, it is a ratio of number of times I could lose the pot before I need to win it to break even...(the light bulb is going off...) However, what I still don't know is how this should affect my betting.


Lets say I am on the river...I need a flush...There are nine outs. 9/46 or roughly 19.6 percent...We will call this 20 percent. A 20 percent chance does not equal 5 to 1, it equals 4 to 1 right??? 4 blocks of 20 are losers, and the fifth block of 20 is my outs...right...so 4 to 1.

So I have 4 to 1 to get my card. When should I call on the pot odds alone...

Is this now my discretion as a poker player...meaning some people will call if the pot odds are 5 to 1, and some need it to be 20 to 1 to make this call....

So lets say there is 100 dollars in teh pot, I call with my 10 bet, putting 110 in the pot...(forget implied odds for the moment)...

I had 10 to 1 pot odds, and 4 to 1 on my card...this should be a call based on those two nubmers right???

Now I realize, this is all based on the flush, not the nuts....so don't lecture me on that...I am dealing strictly with odds here...

Please point out where I am terribly wrong about all this, as I am eager to learn it....

[Sente]

You've got it right. Using your flush draw example and rounding it to 20% would be a 4 to 1 shot. In a cash game, you would call this bet any time the pot offerred at least 4 to 1 odds, even 4.0001 to 1 (ignoring the rake factor for the time being). You would call anytime the pot offers odds greater than the chance of you winning the pot.

You would call $10 to a $41 pot (still ignoring implied odds and the final round of betting for this example...we'll assume for now that if you make your flush, you bet, he puts you on a made flush draw and folds), since your four losses would lose you $40 and your win would gain you $41. On average, you would make $1 profit every 5 times you made this bet.

In a tournament, other factors may come into play such as the stage of the tourney and stack size.

[jim nayzium]

forgive my silly ignorance on such things...but


at churchill downs when a horse is 20-1 to win, and you put 10 dollars down on her...she wins, what do they give back...200?? or 210.

Cuz if its 200, then it seems like we are at an impasse symantically...

but i don't care abou the words...i want to understand the math...

which your 41 dollar explanation made tons of sense...i am getting it..

I was just curious about the horse racing thing...

I thought it was for every 1 dollar bet you got back 20, so a profit of 19...does that make sense...

therefore, if the pot was 200, and you put in 10, you get back 210, making these two independent examples of odds vastly different....

Am I just stupid? no sarcasm intended...really, am i missing somehting....

[Sente]

You would get $210.

I found this link to the NTRA:

http://www.ntraracing.com/news.asp?type ... es&id=4799

Part way down the page, it shows the payoffs on a $2 bet for various odds.

[jim nayzium]

does this sound like good strategic way to do it???

Let me know.

this is from this website: http://pokertips.org/strategy/pot-odds.php




Once you hit the flop, you should use pot odds to decide your next action. When you hit the flop, either you will be winning or hopefully winning (with a made hand) or you want cards to improve your hand (you are drawing). If you have a made hand, you should bet and raise. You want to win the pot now because more cards can only help your opposition. An example of a made hand is if you hold AK and the board is KJ4.

If you do not have a made hand, you are drawing. You must use 'pot odds' to determine if you should call or fold. First, you must count the number of outs you have. An out is a card that will make your hand the best hand. For example, if your hand is KJ, and the board is Q 10 7, then your outs are 4 Aces and 4 9's, or 8 outs total. To calculate your percentage of hitting an out, you take the # of outs times 2, then add 2. Once you figure out this number, you multiply it by the pot to see what the maximum bet is that you can call. For example, if you have 6 outs (6 cards will help you), you have about a 14% chance of hitting. If the pot is $100 and you must call $10, you should call b/c you can call up to $14 (.14 X 100) but the cost is only $10. However, if the bet to you was $20, you should fold, because that would require a 20% chance of hitting.