Hand Critique

[Brucio]

Some random hands I just found looking through my history:


PokerStars Game #25087691817: Hold'em No Limit ($0.01/$0.02) - 2009/02/18 14:36:10 ET
Table 'Ariadne IV' 9-max Seat #5 is the button
Seat 1: DarthTronic ($0.94 in chips)
Seat 2: IHazACarrot ($4.88 in chips)
Seat 3: iwaluk83 ($2.02 in chips)
Seat 4: julespauwels ($4.45 in chips)
Seat 5: chipshop ($1.56 in chips)
Seat 6: srenoh ($1.88 in chips)
Seat 7: drunk05 ($4.16 in chips)
Seat 8: stnd311 ($2.15 in chips)
srenoh: posts small blind $0.01
drunk05: posts big blind $0.02
effuno99: sits out
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to IHazACarrot [Ac 4c]
stnd311: folds
DarthTronic: folds
IHazACarrot: calls $0.02
iwaluk83: calls $0.02
julespauwels: raises $0.04 to $0.06
chipshop: folds
srenoh: folds
drunk05: folds
IHazACarrot: calls $0.04
iwaluk83: folds
*** FLOP *** [2h Td Ah]
IHazACarrot: bets $0.16
julespauwels: folds
Uncalled bet ($0.16) returned to IHazACarrot
IHazACarrot collected $0.17 from pot
IHazACarrot: doesn't show hand
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $0.17 | Rake $0
Board [2h Td Ah]
Seat 1: DarthTronic folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: IHazACarrot collected ($0.17)
Seat 3: iwaluk83 folded before Flop
Seat 4: julespauwels folded on the Flop
Seat 5: chipshop (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: srenoh (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 7: drunk05 (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 8: stnd311 folded before Flop (didn't bet)

PokerStars Game #25087771542: Hold'em No Limit ($0.01/$0.02) - 2009/02/18 14:38:22 ET
Table 'Ariadne IV' 9-max Seat #7 is the button
Seat 1: DarthTronic ($0.94 in chips)
Seat 2: IHazACarrot ($4.99 in chips)
Seat 3: iwaluk83 ($2 in chips)
Seat 4: julespauwels ($4.39 in chips)
Seat 5: chipshop ($1.56 in chips)
Seat 6: srenoh ($1.87 in chips)
Seat 7: drunk05 ($4.22 in chips)
Seat 8: stnd311 ($2.07 in chips)
Seat 9: 1_paWIco_1 ($5 in chips)
stnd311: posts small blind $0.01
1_paWIco_1: posts big blind $0.02
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to IHazACarrot [Kh As]
DarthTronic: folds
IHazACarrot: raises $0.06 to $0.08
iwaluk83: folds
julespauwels: raises $0.06 to $0.14
chipshop: folds
IHazACarrot said, "lol"
srenoh has timed out while disconnected
srenoh: folds
srenoh is sitting out
srenoh is connected
drunk05: folds
stnd311: folds
1_paWIco_1: raises $4.86 to $5 and is all-in
IHazACarrot: calls $4.91 and is all-in
julespauwels: calls $4.25 and is all-in
Uncalled bet ($0.01) returned to 1_paWIco_1
*** FLOP *** [8h Qh 2c]
*** TURN *** [8h Qh 2c] [Jh]
*** RIVER *** [8h Qh 2c Jh] [6c]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
1_paWIco_1: shows [Jd Jc] (three of a kind, Jacks)
IHazACarrot: mucks hand
1_paWIco_1 collected $1.15 from side pot
julespauwels: shows [Qs Qd] (three of a kind, Queens)
julespauwels collected $12.53 from main pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $14.38 Main pot $12.53. Side pot $1.15. | Rake $0.70
Board [8h Qh 2c Jh 6c]
Seat 1: DarthTronic folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: IHazACarrot mucked [Kh As]
Seat 3: iwaluk83 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: julespauwels showed [Qs Qd] and won ($12.53) with three of a kind, Queens
Seat 5: chipshop folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: srenoh folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: drunk05 (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: stnd311 (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 9: 1_paWIco_1 (big blind) showed [Jd Jc] and won ($1.15) with three of a kind, Jacks

PokerStars Game #25048422410: Hold'em No Limit ($0.01/$0.02) - 2009/02/17 13:12:21 ET
Table 'Brunk III' 9-max Seat #4 is the button
Seat 1: Dafke1985 ($3.70 in chips)
Seat 3: ignaciovalek ($0.69 in chips)
Seat 4: IHazACarrot ($4.97 in chips)
Seat 5: kingslight ($1.74 in chips)
Seat 6: zahareg ($0.83 in chips)
Seat 7: Magesto ($0.31 in chips)
Seat 8: toyrod ($1.66 in chips)
Seat 9: ZC74 ($2.98 in chips)
kingslight: posts small blind $0.01
zahareg: posts big blind $0.02
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to IHazACarrot [6s 5s]
Magesto: folds
toyrod: folds
ZC74: folds
Dafke1985: calls $0.02
ignaciovalek: folds
IHazACarrot: raises $0.06 to $0.08
kingslight: calls $0.07
zahareg: calls $0.06
Dafke1985: folds
*** FLOP *** [Jd 2s Qs]
kingslight: checks
zahareg: checks
IHazACarrot: bets $0.14
kingslight: folds
zahareg: folds
Uncalled bet ($0.14) returned to IHazACarrot
IHazACarrot collected $0.26 from pot
IHazACarrot: doesn't show hand
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $0.26 | Rake $0
Board [Jd 2s Qs]
Seat 1: Dafke1985 folded before Flop
Seat 3: ignaciovalek folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: IHazACarrot (button) collected ($0.26)
Seat 5: kingslight (small blind) folded on the Flop
Seat 6: zahareg (big blind) folded on the Flop
Seat 7: Magesto folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: toyrod folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: ZC74 folded before Flop (didn't bet)

Thoughts?

[Jauron]

Hand 1 fold PF, as played dont' understand why you'd lead out this flop. Should force worse hands to fold and better to call.
Hand 2, With all that action (and without reads) there is no way I call the push.
Hand 3, not a bad board to C-bet on when checked to you.

[Brucio]

So with hand 2, you're saying you wouldn't shove with AK preflop?

[JDRock]

Hand 1: Never lead out with paired A low-kicker on the flop, especially not so big and in that position. That is a bet that only hands that can beat you will call. Suited aces are for flush draws first and pairs a distant second.

Hand 2: Personally, I fold AK unsiuted pre-flop when confronted with a push, especially heads up. A three way pot, however, it's pretty decent money. In this case your chances of busting both QQ and JJ are about the same as going vs only QQ except you get twice the payout. AK suited, however, it depends on the reads and other factors, but it's generally about 50/50 in that position for heads up and a definite call in 3 way action. It's tough to lay down a strong hand, but you don't want to be that guy who never lays down AK pre-flop. In this situation though, there's plenty to be said either way, so don't beat yourself up.

Hand 3: You may as well have had the hammer this hand. Holding what your opponents were holding, they were likely to fold to any strong bet, and so a stone cold bluff would've had the same effect.

Suited connector theory is pretty hazy, but I always prefer to see myself on the top end of an open-ender rather than on a flush or the low end of a straight. That's one reason I don't play anything lower than 7-8s most of the time. Anyway, if you do get a call here then you're probably seriously behind, maybe even drawing dead. On the other hand, if you don't lead out pre-flop there's more liklihood that players will stay in the three way pot that you're gunning for with suited connectors. That way you do actually have appropriate implied pot odds. Some will say that your pay-outs by making people fold this way will reward you, but I say if you're betting to make people fold you may as well do it with the hammer. Having what outs you may (or may not) have is just a security blanket.

Another thing, pre-flop that's not a hand I usually lead out with unless I know there's going to be 3 in the pot with me. Here, you're got one guy who cold calls the bb ahead of you and lucky for you, there's two callers playing later than you. The majority of the time, however, you'll get everyone to fold but the guy with AK who reraises you.

I think that at this point the people who say "never play suited connectors" are in the minority, but the situations and ways you should play them are very complex. Here, I see more wrong than I see right.

Just my opinion.

[MrDarling]

Hand 1 : fold PF. pretty hard to play what is basically a drawing hand OOP

Hand 2 : fold PF. you're 250BB deep. you've invested very little and you're flipping at best

Hand 3 is ok. Though this is NOT a good flop to cbet into 3 people w/o show down value as it really hits their PF range.

Rock, a lot of what you're saying doesn't make much sense. Pretend you don't know what his opponent where holding in hand 2 and think what is more likely we're facing 2 under pair or we're facing at least 1 under pair and one of our outs is out (and more likely, we're drawing to one out anyway at best)
And in hand 3 if we raise with SC IP we prefer to to have the hand HU against a what seemed like a weak player. Even though we don't mind a family pot when we have position with this kind of hand...

[JDRock]

Hand 1 : fold PF. pretty hard to play what is basically a drawing hand OOP

Hand 2 : fold PF. you're 250BB deep. you've invested very little and you're flipping at best

Hand 3 is ok. Though this is NOT a good flop to cbet into 3 people w/o show down value as it really hits their PF range.

Rock, a lot of what you're saying doesn't make much sense. Pretend you don't know what his opponent where holding in hand 2 and think what is more likely we're facing 2 under pair or we're facing at least 1 under pair and one of our outs is out (and more likely, we're drawing to one out anyway at best)
And in hand 3 if we raise with SC IP we prefer to to have the hand HU against a what seemed like a weak player. Even though we don't mind a family pot when we have position with this kind of hand...

Hand 2: I'd still call this hand in a cash game. Tournament, I might look for a better spot depending on my stack and my reads, but if you're folding AK three way pre-flop then you might as well pack up your chips and find a new table - you're too scared. Against AA and KK you're pretty dominated, but other than that the worst spot you could be in is Villan 1 with AK and Villan 2 with QQ or below. Even in the case you're drawing to a split pot, which case is pretty improbable, you're not all that far behind making a call.

Every situation other than AA and KK, even those in which one or two of your outs is gone, you've got close to 45% chance to take the pot and you're getting a vastly superior return of 2 to 1. Keep in mind that the most probable case, which is two under pair, barring trips you have the same chances of winning vs. 2 players or even 4 players as you do against vs. one. And in cases like this with multiple players you have a superior return on your coin flip hand.

Hand 3: I'd like to comment, but I don't know what "SC", "IP" and "HU" mean. I apologize, I'm new to the forums.

[Jauron]

You keep talking you like you know the guy behind you will call the AI (you don't) AND that he'll do it with a wide range of hands we flip with. QQ should be bottom of his range, sometimes JJ...

So a large percent of the time he'll just fold and we called 250BB to flip or split, the rest of the time we hope he's got QQ or is bad enough he can't fold JJ here when he should be showing you KK or AA more often.

It's probably more interesting if he make this decision after they both move in as their ranges can be wider but that is not what happened here.

HU = Heads up, IP = in position, SC= Suited Connectors

[JDRock]

You keep talking you like you know the guy behind you will call the AI (you don't) AND that he'll do it with a wide range of hands we flip with. QQ should be bottom of his range, sometimes JJ...

So a large percent of the time he'll just fold and we called 250BB to flip or split, the rest of the time we hope he's got QQ or is bad enough he can't fold JJ here when he should be showing you KK or AA more often.

It's probably more interesting if he make this decision after they both move in as their ranges can be wider but that is not what happened here.

HU = Heads up, IP = in position, SC= Suited Connectors

I see what you're saying, that's my bad. Somehow I had the idea that Player_Name was last to act in Hand 2 PF. That's makes the analysis different entirely, my apology.

Even so, AK is a tough lay down PF. I know players who will shove PF with pocket 3s if their reads tell them both that they will get to heads up and that no one else has a pocket pair. If that's the case, 3s or 2s or whatever has roughly the same chance as queens vs. AK. So, although that doesn't help you here, knowing that your opponent shoves with any pocket pair will reduce the chances dramatically that you're facing the dreaded AA or KK when your opponent makes that kind of a move. If it's a tight Phill Hellmuth disciple only playing top pairs, then fold is right.

That's with unsuited anyway, with AK suited I'm not laying it down PF unless there's a really good reason.

Anyway, thanks for explaining the acronyms and for the much needed correction.

[JDRock]

And in hand 3 if we raise with SC IP we prefer to to have the hand HU against a what seemed like a weak player. Even though we don't mind a family pot when we have position with this kind of hand...

I'm still not sure I agree with this, at least applied to SC theory.

I'm not as critical of the PF bet, the position is good and a big bet is not as obvious as it would have been from BB. However, if you're hoping to play heads up against what seemed like a weak player why even wait for suited connectors? It seems to me like you're playing your position and not your cards at all. Not that that's bad, it's just that I wouldn't do it without reads and that kind of information wasn't supplied here.

As a tight player, I wouldn't have gotten into this pot, and when I do play suited connecters it's when I see several other players are in and I can end the PF betting to see the flop cheaply.

I suppose both ways work. I guess with all aspects of SC theory you need to know both your own style and your opponents'.