Head scratcher

[HalfSugar]

Live game, 8-handed deep(ish) stack game, everyone about even around 10,000 chips.

Level is 25/50, I'm on the button with KsKc.

MP1 limps, MP2 limps, CO limps, I raise to 250. Blinds fold, all three limpers call. Pot 1,075.

Flop 7h8dTh

MP1 is TAG, MP2 and CO both LAG players with wide ranges in most spots. MP1 never limps in bad position, what he's doing in the pot I have no idea.

MP1 leads 400, MP2 and CO both call quickly. What is your move here? Pot is 2,275 obviously.

[xDiamond_CutteRx]

Bleh, what a crap spot multiway. Folding is so nitty. Raising is only an option if the plan is raise/fold IMO.

You can call and see what happens on the turn and fold to serious action, but it's going to depend a lot on how these guys play and how likely they are to bet, because I've been in some games where the sequence will go like this, but then the guy will bet 50 on the turn.

[bucks77]

Agree with diamond.. I'd probably just call here and see what falls on the turn. I'd think MP1 would bet more with a set or AA so wouldn't be out of line to put him on 99 or A9/A10. MP2 and CO could have just about anything considering the flush/straight draws or even a made straight with J9.

In certain situations against certain players raising might be the best option to see where you're at but in this situation you could easily get called or re-raised, resulting in an even more difficult decision. Just call and see what peels on the turn and how they react, then act accordingly.

[crack]

I would probably just call, but I don't really like your equity on that board against 3 players. You may be best to just nit it up and fold on the flop. I mean, you still have a deep stack and the blinds are tiny.

I'd be more inclined to call if it was like a £1 buy in though.

[odlozilik]

Quite a little raise pf into 3 limpers.

I would even fold now. If you are not behind already, what is actual probability that no one of them will outdraw you? Very very low.

[crack]

5x bb little? What do you want to do? Make it 20x and take down the dead money or something? 5x is fine.

[odlozilik]

C'mon, the lowest formula is 3bb+1bb per limper, so it's 6bb in this case. Considering the level of play and deep stacks, I would make 7bb at least. (I often raise 5bb into just 1 limper and still get called a lot).

[HalfSugar]

Pre-flop is OK imo and I'd play it the same next time.

I have to say that I mulled over a call (albeit for a few seconds - I couldn't exactly tank in this spot unless I planned to fold) and decided it was the least attractive option because ultimately I couldn't think of a turn card that I'd like to see and be lead into.

It ended up being a total 50/50 between folding and raising in my mind and I went with raise and made it 2,200 to go. Ignoring the result for now, I'm still a little unsure of this play. The stacks are so deep that folding is probably OK but as people have said, it's so nitty that I couldn't find it in me.

So, after my raise, MP1 tank folded (he hung on and tabled JJ at the end of the hand) and both MP2 and CO called. After two calls, I'm just praying the boards bricks both draws. Hilariously the turn is 6s.

MP2 checks, CO checks, your move here? Pot is now 6,075. Board reads 7h8dTh6s.

[crack]

C'mon, the lowest formula is 3bb+1bb per limper, so it's 6bb in this case. Considering the level of play and deep stacks, I would make 7bb at least. (I often raise 5bb into just 1 limper and still get called a lot).

You should rethink your tournament strategy mate. We want to get action with our good hands, not just raise it a retarded amount and take down a small pot. Next you will be saying you either win a small pot or lose a big one with aces. lollll


Meh Geno, I don't like the raise. I just really not feeling like overplaying KK on such a co-ordinated board like that. Not when you will be able to find a lot of better spots. I really do prefer to just muck it and move on. If you don't want to feel like a nit, call it an aggressive fold.

I'm prolly going to check back the river and just see if I can get to showdown. I dunno what the players are like. But seeing as I'd rather fold on the flop, you can't be surprised I would check back the turn when the 6 comes. The problem is, if you bet here, you are going to have to bet around 4k and be prepared to fold to an all in after you have stuck 6k of your stack in, 60% of it.

[miaowmiaowchowface]

bigger preflop, and raise here. then see what happens and decide

[HalfSugar]

Meh Geno, I don't like the raise. I just really not feeling like overplaying KK on such a co-ordinated board like that. Not when you will be able to find a lot of better spots. I really do prefer to just muck it and move on. If you don't want to feel like a nit, call it an aggressive fold.

Yeah, I'd fold next time I think. I really did consider it at least!

I'm prolly going to check back the river and just see if I can get to showdown. I dunno what the players are like. But seeing as I'd rather fold on the flop, you can't be surprised I would check back the turn when the 6 comes. The problem is, if you bet here, you are going to have to bet around 4k and be prepared to fold to an all in after you have stuck 6k of your stack in, 60% of it.

The more I think about this spot, the more I think there may be a chance that I f*cked it up a little. Both remaining players are the LAGs and given that we've all played with each other a ton of times before (we're all in a poker league) they do love to try and bust each other so they have a history.

I think after they both called the flop and then the six peeled off I had to figure one of them for a made hand even if the other was drawing to the flush. I couldn't be sure enough that they would both bet a straight here rather than set a trap by checking and as you say, the 'right' sized bet here is about 4K and if one of them calls that, I'm utterly dead with most of my stack in the middle.

Given all that, I checked behind fairly sure that regardless of the card I'd be folding to a bet. There was such a small chance that the river would check round to me on a brick card that I'd already totally given up in my mind.

Hilariously(!), the river was another heart so rather than go Qs, 2c or something to brick both draws, the poker gods decided to just go right ahead and put both obvious draws out there.

Following the heart on the river, MP1 bet out 4,500, MP2 called and I tossed in the Kings. MP1 showed Ah8h for the nuts and MP2 showed some baby flush. Neither hand shocked me and I'm not sure that I could have got rid of either of them by betting the turn so my only mistake probably was raising the flop.

One point I forgot to mention earlier was that by raising the flop, I was 100% turning my hand face up. I really could only be peddling KK or AA and I don't think Ah8h lays down the turn to any bet 'knowing' he has up to 12 outs and has a propensity for loose play.

Oh well, one to remember and play differently next time.

[crack]

After I re-read the situation I wouldn't check back the turn after I have raised the flop I don't think when the 6 comes. Unless the players are terrible, I doubt the 9 is sticking around to make a straight when some dude shows JJ and folds before they have a chance to call.

Also by him showing JJ it makes a straight less likely unless it's the 69o

And on a board like that any made hand set etc would probably try and rr and get it in on the flop. Unless they are proper trappy trap trap guys.

But I still prefer to just muck it on the flop I think.

[HalfSugar]

MP1 tank folded (he hung on and tabled JJ at the end of the hand)

He didn't show during the hand dude. If he did that, he'd be wearing the chair I was sitting on.

[crack]

Oh, Sorry, misread. In that case ignore my last post. I was going to say that's a bit out of order muck showing JJ there. lollll

[Ciso_B]

I dont mind the open but think like 300/350 is fine open too.

On with the flop play though,I'm not folding to one bet but i'm not re raising either here really, I think calling and assessing based on opponents actions and the turn card is perfectly fine tbh. You have plenty behind, you have position on the hand, call flop decide later. True most hands that bet or call on flop here have good equity, but we have an overpair, and the flop bet wasn't indicative of any huge strength since he bet less than 1/2 pot and being first to speak would most likely check a set or straight. Also, neither of the guys re raised here, so unless there's someone trapping in there its very reasonable to assume Ks are still good. That said our hand is not strong enough 4 handed to riase flop cos a thinking player could play a hand like 79s/89s/TJ fast since our hand would be faceup.

As played after you raise flop, you could take a punt at the 6 turn, however , the pot is getting awfully big and this player can very easily be sitting there with a 9 imo. I would check back and see what he does on river.

The key thing in this hand imo , is we do have position. Had we been sandwiched in between some of these players I could advocate an "agressive " fold more.