How Do I Play This Better? (Stud)

[wEbMaStEr]

Limit betting has always been a bit of a mystery to me, i don't want to raise too much in case they aren't that strong. But then they might call the raise anyways and then they're checking to me next street etc. etc.

So, the question is, with only the info that i had avaliable to me, how do i play this better, obviously i won the hand, but i'm gonna hold back their hands so you have the info that i had

PokerStars Game #3090252930: 7 Card Stud Limit ($2/$4) - 2005/11/18 - 09:18:41 (ET)
Table 'Botein'
Seat 2: blackclayton ($194.25 in chips)
Seat 3: chelseabass ($79.25 in chips)
Seat 4: caMeinreB ($41.75 in chips)
Seat 5: DeepRed2 ($78.75 in chips)
Seat 6: Pokerdoc1966 ($181.25 in chips)
Seat 7: backtracker ($60 in chips)
blackclayton: posts the ante $0.25
chelseabass: posts the ante $0.25
caMeinreB: posts the ante $0.25
DeepRed2: posts the ante $0.25
Pokerdoc1966: posts the ante $0.25
backtracker: posts the ante $0.25
*** 3rd STREET ***
Dealt to blackclayton [6c]
Dealt to chelseabass [Td]
Dealt to caMeinreB [8d]
Dealt to DeepRed2 [Qd Ac Qs]
Dealt to Pokerdoc1966 [9c]
Dealt to backtracker [7s]
blackclayton: brings-in low $1
chelseabass: folds
caMeinreB: calls $1
DeepRed2: calls $1
Pokerdoc1966: calls $1
backtracker: calls $1
*** 4th STREET ***
Dealt to blackclayton [6c] [Kh]
Dealt to caMeinreB [8d] [3d]
Dealt to DeepRed2 [Qd Ac Qs] [Ad]
Dealt to Pokerdoc1966 [9c] [4s]
Dealt to backtracker [7s] [9d]
DeepRed2: bets $2
Pokerdoc1966: calls $2
backtracker: calls $2
blackclayton: calls $2
caMeinreB: calls $2
*** 5th STREET ***
Dealt to blackclayton [6c Kh] [6s]
Dealt to caMeinreB [8d 3d] [Jd]
Dealt to DeepRed2 [Qd Ac Qs Ad] [Ah]
Dealt to Pokerdoc1966 [9c 4s] [9s]
Dealt to backtracker [7s 9d] [Kd]
DeepRed2: checks
Pokerdoc1966: bets $4
backtracker: folds
blackclayton: calls $4
caMeinreB: calls $4
DeepRed2: calls $4
*** 6th STREET ***
Dealt to blackclayton [6c Kh 6s] [3h]
Dealt to caMeinreB [8d 3d Jd] [Jh]
Dealt to DeepRed2 [Qd Ac Qs Ad Ah] [Th]
Dealt to Pokerdoc1966 [9c 4s 9s] [3c]
yuchen has returned
DeepRed2: checks
Pokerdoc1966: checks
blackclayton: bets $4
caMeinreB: raises $4 to $8
DeepRed2: calls $8
Pokerdoc1966: folds
yuchen is sitting out
blackclayton: calls $4
*** RIVER ***
Dealt to DeepRed2 [Qd Ac Qs Ad Ah Th] [Ks]
DeepRed2: bets $4
blackclayton: calls $4
caMeinreB: calls $4
*** SHOW DOWN ***

[twofotisx]

First off holy crap, what a hand and what a nice way to get it!!

Anyway, personally I would have raised off the bring in bet on 3rd street. Since it would only be 1 additionall dollar I believe you would have gotten the same callers with more money in the pot.

4th street you did the best you could.

5th street I like the check raise better than the call. Your certainly not trying to fold here and unless your planning to get more bets out if someone catches something on 6th...

6th street Excelent action good check to start!! Why didn't you reraise?! It weakens your play at 5th street when you could have gotten another bet there. It seems like chances are good that caMeinre caught his third jack or has the nut diamond draw. Either way the minimal that will happen is for him to call you down. Your implied odds are good.

7th street I think you made the right move by betting here instead of checking. If caMei and black missed trips or caMein's missed a flush draw a check from you would simply get two more checks. If Camein gets the flush you could expect a raise which you should have promtely reraised if given the opportunity.

[UrAteUp]

My stud play has been limited online. In person I love the game. I think you played it well till you got to the river. I am not sure if I would have let it go to the river or not. I think I would have raised almost every round with the exception of the first 2. The worst thing that could happen is the other players cap your betting. But inveritably there is always some joker in the group who feels a raise is in order so it wouldn't be likely to get capped thus allowing you to raise even more.

That might not be the text book way to play but it is how I would most likely play it.

[Soup_dog]

Well... to be honest I have just started playing stud but I think you could have been more agressive almost from the start.

On 3rd street you had a very nice starting hand and mid to late position with many callers. I think a raise here would probably have still gotten a number of callers, increased the pot size and improve pot odds for later calls.

On 4th street you did all you can do. No worries.

On 5th street I would have raised instead of called. At this point everyone is in for a chunk and another raise isn't going to chase them away.

On 6th street: see above.

River: betting out was probably the best choice. They would probably have checked it down.


I'll be curious to see what others with more experience say.

[TheSalche]

dear god ... when i was playing 2/4 at pstars they werent this loose ... you pretty much got max value out of this one considering what happened ... here's what i wouldve done (which wouldve worked out worse, but better in general i think)

3rd: i like limping here with a big pair to little to no threat in terms of the other players up cards, in general raise here, big pairs play better in pots with fewer players

4th: this is why aces in the hole are powerful ... many stud players will almost auto-bet everytime they catch an ace up, players at the 2/4 level know this, so you're more likely to get action when you have a pair of aces showing, i like betting here after limping 3rd, its confusing to the other players

5th: check here is questionable, i really have no idea why pokerdoc bet there ... but with clayton pairing his door card, your check looks like a defensive check, which is nice, i might bet here because you may miss a round of betting if it gets checked around ... but some people are still dumb enough to bet into a pair of aces on the board (mark those people ...)

6th: another good time to check ... everybody has a pair on board, unfortunately you're position isnt the best here, so just calling the raise was the best way to play it

7th: im considering checking 7th here too ... you look like scared aces up, you may have been able to squeeze out another bet, but who knows, hopefully its house over house situation here

on a side note: mark Yuchen ... he is ridiculously aggressive, ive played a lot with him and seen him raise with a 6 up when theres 3 paint cards to act after him

[supafrey]

wait. you have aces full? FOR THE LOVE OF GOD WHY AREN'T YOU CAPPING 5th and 6th street?!

[wEbMaStEr]

Thanks so far.

Supa i didn't cap 5th cos i had Aces up and didn't want to raise and scare blackclayton off just to get a call from cameinre, would have been the same value and then i would have had to bet out on 6th for 1 call. I felt calling the raise would keep black in the hand and allow me to do what i singularly failed to do on 6th which was reraise and then lead out on 7th.

I'm looking for max value for this hand not to push people off. I didnt get it tho. I did play it badly, I should have reraised 6th but i failed to do so.

as it turns out they had.......

*** SHOW DOWN ***
DeepRed2: shows [Qd Ac Qs Ad Ah Th Ks] (a full house, Aces full of Queens)
blackclayton: mucks hand
caMeinreB: shows [Js 8c 8d 3d Jd Jh 2d] (a full house, Jacks full of Eights)
DeepRed2 collected $66.50 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $68.50 | Rake $2
Seat 2: blackclayton mucked [Kc 6h 6c Kh 6s 3h 2h]
Seat 3: chelseabass folded on the 3rd Street (didn't bet)
Seat 4: caMeinreB showed [Js 8c 8d 3d Jd Jh 2d] and lost with a full house, Jacks full of Eights
Seat 5: DeepRed2 showed [Qd Ac Qs Ad Ah Th Ks] and won ($66.50) with a full house, Aces full of Queens
Seat 6: Pokerdoc1966 folded on the 6th Street
Seat 7: backtracker folded on the 5th Street

Boat over boat over boat all by 6th This should have been a monster pot, but i was too worried about scaring them away and trying to get value to re-reraise at every street

As for Yuchen, yeah salche i've seen him many times, he is aggressive as hell but without anythinng to back it up, this can backfire badly on him. I am aware of him tho.

And as for Pokerdoc1966...... at the start of this hand he had $180, he sat down with $200, an hour and a half later, he was broke. It's bonus weekend at pokerstars! I played $2/$4 stud for about 4 hours today and took away $400 :D I'll probably lose it all again tomorrow tho The table went from reasonable to ridiculously loose, to tight as hell, back to ridiculous again throughout this time period.

[TheSalche]

lets take a look at this ... i think your play up 5th was fine for sure, so lets just set that as the base for how much money you make off this hand ... i dont think trying to cap 5th is the best idea here supa ... lose a lot of value in the extra callers fishing for a dead hand. From the way the hand played out, you made profited 6 big bets.

Situation 1: following the same action, clayton bets, cameinre raises, now you 3 - bet it, doc is still folding obviously, and im clayton SHOULD fold, lets say he does. Now, from what we saw from the real hand, I don't think that cameinre is capping, since he didnt raise 7th with a boat. Now you'll be 7th and he'll call with a losing hand. Now you're making 5 big bets (not including the ones you put in).

Situation 2: Same thing, but clayton calls, so you make 2 more bets on 6th, but he's probably folding 7th if he misses his draw or whatever the hell he had. That's 7 big bets there.

Situation 3: This one is kinda variable, this is ideal, caimere caps 6ths, and then you can check raise, or bet raise 7th ... depending on how far he takes it, you could make like 9 big bets here.

But like I said, given the action that we saw with the way the hand played out, caimere played his full house passively, very fearful of a higher full house, but he may have been afraid you hit it on the river.

You may have been able to squeeze out another bet or two, but overall, nicely done. I'm gonna need to get my stars roll back up ... the games at UB are gonna start going dry after I suck em up.

[wEbMaStEr]

Thanks Salche, Basically, if i could have known there was 3 full houses out by 6th then i could have made a couple more bets. But how often are you going to get a hand like AAAQQ with 2 more boats against it? I get this situation again another 99 times and that wont happen.
It's like flopping the nuts in holdem, you have to go gently or you'll lose them.

In all i feel i got what my hand deserved from this pot, just not what my hand against those hands deserved

$2/$4 Limit lol, i actually fell into that by accident, I had only just moved up to the $1/$2 game when i tried to get into a game and was wondering why my $30 stake was looking fragile! I had sat at the wrong table :D But i toughed it out for a few hands and worked that $30 up to $80 pretty quickly, and tried again today. sitting in with $60 and leaving with $460!
And i thought it felt good to work $30 up to $100 on the $1/$2 tables!

Like you say tho, people get to know you pretty quickly at these games, right now for example, there are only 2 full $2/$4 tables running. They will stop playing with me pretty quickly i feel 8)

Maybe we should swap? when UB dries for you maybe i should jump across there and you come back here?

[supafrey]

The results just proved me right. I doubt either would have folded 5th, and I definitely think that woulda been the smartest move for most value. If you had table reads on them, i may be wrong though. That's my line though.

[TheSalche]

The results just proved me right. I doubt either would have folded 5th, and I definitely think that woulda been the smartest move for most value. If you had table reads on them, i may be wrong though. That's my line though.

disagree with you here, best that cameinre had on 5th is two pair, and we really dont know about clayton ... possible trips, but possible two pair

guess we'll just find out who the best stud player is on sunday

[supafrey]

lol i'm getting digs at me left and right eh.

still sore I didn't fall for the "bluff of the century"?

[TheSalche]

lol i'm getting digs at me left and right eh.

still sore I didn't fall for the "bluff of the century"?

or who called almost all their chips off with just an overpair against a known tight player

its all just words :D

[supafrey]

oh it's already been BROUGHTen

[xDiamond_CutteRx]

Just a general point. In Stud, especially in the low limits, and especially online, you don't really need to be trappy with your hands. I almost always just straight value bet with a hand of quality comparable to yours. Take along anyone else who wants to go for the ride, but I see no problem with playing a hand like this straight-forward and aggressive.