I remember why u dont bluff online

[Ciso_B]

I love the river card here, but just encase bb has King, I decide to bet 2,500 instead of the usual 3,500 + I would...
I hate when you assess the hand right and they make these calls.
Sidenote- I haven't shown 1 bluff down this tournament.


PokerStars Game #28736347254: Tournament #165726742, $10+$1 Hold'em No Limit - Level X (300/600) - 2009/05/28 21:53:22 ET
Table '165726742 68' 9-max Seat #1 is the button
Seat 1: kelkel36 (11537 in chips)
Seat 2: Neab (12706 in chips)
Seat 3: Sense321 (45519 in chips)
Seat 4: lekker belan (11134 in chips)
Seat 5: onlybeef42 (31710 in chips)
Seat 6: xxxmanuelxxx (18600 in chips)
Seat 7: lucksack75 (18162 in chips)
Seat 8: Kballer7 (28208 in chips)
Seat 9: WoodBrave (42814 in chips)
kelkel36: posts the ante 50
Neab: posts the ante 50
Sense321: posts the ante 50
lekker belan: posts the ante 50
onlybeef42: posts the ante 50
xxxmanuelxxx: posts the ante 50
lucksack75: posts the ante 50
Kballer7: posts the ante 50
WoodBrave: posts the ante 50
Neab: posts small blind 300
Sense321: posts big blind 600
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Neab [8h 5c]
Neab said, "rigged flop"
Neab said, "i had King too"
lekker belan: folds
onlybeef42: folds
xxxmanuelxxx: folds
lucksack75: calls 600
Kballer7: folds
WoodBrave: folds
kelkel36: folds
Neab: calls 300
Sense321: checks
*** FLOP *** [3c Ks 2c]
Neab: checks
Sense321: checks
lucksack75: checks
*** TURN *** [3c Ks 2c] [3s]
Neab: bets 1175
Sense321: calls 1175
onlybeef42 said, "figured I was good to get one of yall to play"
lucksack75: calls 1175
*** RIVER *** [3c Ks 2c 3s] [Kh]
Neab: bets 2500
Sense321: folds
lucksack75: calls 2500
*** SHOW DOWN ***
Neab: shows [8h 5c] (two pair, Kings and Threes)
lucksack75: shows [As Ts] (two pair, Kings and Threes - Ace kicker)
lucksack75 collected 10775 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 10775 | Rake 0
Board [3c Ks 2c 3s Kh]
Seat 1: kelkel36 (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: Neab (small blind) showed [8h 5c] and lost with two pair, Kings and Threes
Seat 3: Sense321 (big blind) folded on the River
Seat 4: lekker belan folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: onlybeef42 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: xxxmanuelxxx folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: lucksack75 showed [As Ts] and won (10775) with two pair, Kings and Threes
Seat 8: Kballer7 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: WoodBrave folded before Flop (didn't bet)

[miaowmiaowchowface]

every street except flop is terirble

[Ciso_B]

Preflop -

Costs me 300 for a pot of around 1900/2000. Not really folding many hands here if at all if i can play post flop half well. I appreciate I don't have a big stack.But 20/21 bbs is plenty to call from the sb here with most hands.

Flop - I agree betting here wiht my stack into 2 people is silly.

Turn- I think it's fine throwing a bet here, from a maths point of view alone , Im gettin good odds to take a shot... Called in 2 places isn't ideal, but I don't see anyone showing up with a hand here of any strength.

River - questionable yeah. But when the guy in position doesn't raise preflop, doesn't bet flop, overcalls turn , his hand screams draw. Had either club or spade draw got there, I'd surrender.But there's no way im doing that here. The bb could have a king , but a 3 would re raise turn, and his hand looked more like 4-5 or some drawy crap either. Hence why I said in the original post that I "loved" the river.

Not all that much fun having to defend every action I ever make, but I like to speak up when criticised over every play I make.

Anytime you want to write a coherent paragraph with structured criticism miaow, go ahead, I'll be willing to accept/listen. I put alot of effort into my rebuttals, while just about every post you make is judgemental with no reason. Just "played crap", "played standard" etc.

Put some effort in bud, you're former scrabble champ aint ya, so surely you can articulate better than you show in these forums.

[Jernej Zorec]

i dont think that 85o has anywhere near enough potential to be playing it OOP with 20 bb stack even with those odds

[miaowmiaowchowface]

Preflop -

Costs me 300 for a pot of around 1900/2000. Not really folding many hands here if at all if i can play post flop half well. I appreciate I don't have a big stack.But 20/21 bbs is plenty to call from the sb here with most hands.

Flop - I agree betting here wiht my stack into 2 people is silly.

Turn- I think it's fine throwing a bet here, from a maths point of view alone , Im gettin good odds to take a shot... Called in 2 places isn't ideal, but I don't see anyone showing up with a hand here of any strength.

River - questionable yeah. But when the guy in position doesn't raise preflop, doesn't bet flop, overcalls turn , his hand screams draw. Had either club or spade draw got there, I'd surrender.But there's no way im doing that here. The bb could have a king , but a 3 would re raise turn, and his hand looked more like 4-5 or some drawy crap either. Hence why I said in the original post that I "loved" the river.

Not all that much fun having to defend every action I ever make, but I like to speak up when criticised over every play I make.

Anytime you want to write a coherent paragraph with structured criticism miaow, go ahead, I'll be willing to accept/listen. I put alot of effort into my rebuttals, while just about every post you make is judgemental with no reason. Just "played crap", "played standard" etc.

Put some effort in bud, you're former scrabble champ aint ya, so surely you can articulate better than you show in these forums.

ok, playing 58o oop just isnt going to show a profit 20bb deep, i mean i dont really wanna go any deeper then that.

on the turn basically ur leading into two spastics (we can assume they're spastics because we don't know otherwise) who will call with any pair and any draw alot of the time and sometimes one will raise and sometimes both will call which brings us to 100% impossible spots on the river because we're bluffing with no equity 3way. So as you can see on the river we got into one of those impossible spots and theres just no way anyone is folding a 3 or a king, dont try to make people fold full houses.

his call is pretty f stupid, because you should never be bluffing there, but i know these things play differently , so i cant entirely relate. hope that helped

[crack]

They right ciso. Why get yourself involved in these spots with a shit hand oop with only 20bb?

Also, it's $10 mtt so you won't be able to run these plays through enough to make it profitable I don't think. You just cost yourself a significant amount of your stack for no reason when you could have got away for $300.

[Ciso_B]

So as you can see on the river we got into one of those impossible spots and theres just no way anyone is folding a 3 or a king, dont try to make people fold full houses.

I really never see them showing up with either 3 or King...you guys know how solid I play, i'm not trying a bluff in spots I think are gonna fail often.

I totally understand folding preflop too,its shite hand, and i don't have position , and my stack size isn't great. However, in this field, I'm still flatting here with these type of hands around 70% of the time.
I'm folding the J-2off,27,26,28,29 etc. but not the 4-6,5-8,9-6,J-8 types. I don't know whether its a leak, but I feel I play well enough against these players to show a profit.
Quite possibly the error I made in the hand , was the river bet size. I know these type of players might make a shitty river call with Ace high when it seems clear I have that beat. So a bigger bet mighta done that job, I probably would have been inclined to IF i was headsup. Cos there was 2 of them , I felt there was still a small chance the bb had a boat, although , I reckon that is less than 20% of the time.

Thanks for your thoughts eldar. Understand why you feel all streets were crap now,even if I think your assessment of their kind of hands are skewed.

[supafrey]

I generally just think that's a terrible board to bluff on.

[gumbie]

What hands that can beat A high are you betting the river with?

[Ciso_B]

King, 3, blufff...like i said, vs this type of opponent, a bigger bet is in order....however,im multiway and altho i feel mr ATs, never shows up with 3x or kx, but bb could, so i wanted damage control.

[supafrey]

so many draws missed... the top card paired.. it's a paired board.. there's like so many reasons for a donk to call you here. it makes a river bluff terrrrribad.

[gumbie]

King, 3, blufff...like i said, vs this type of opponent, a bigger bet is in order....however,im multiway and altho i feel mr ATs, never shows up with 3x or kx, but bb could, so i wanted damage control.

You don't check the flop with a K as we saw in ur Q7 hand.

I'm not so sure you bet the river with a 3 either.

[Ciso_B]

not really as simple as that gumbie, and if the only reason i wouldn't sometimes bet a 3 on river wud be to snap off a bluff, so i'd prolly river check 3 , as often as i would a king here...

Maybe I should just not bet at all though here, I mean I'm 3 way...My main defence though is that if im gonna fire turn here, I have to be prepared to fire this kind of rivers, which I did. Thats why I don't HATE it....