insane or genius...probably insane...

[Ciso_B]

So , prior to this hand,I've beeon a bit of a rollercoaster, I had a good stack for a bit, then lost some, then wiht 16bbs I had AK, this particular played 3xed from ep, and the sb with 10x shoved, I re shoved, and we all got it in.
AK for me and this opponent, and 66 for the other, we lost, and i had 5x, I soon got it in wiht 5s vs A4 and held, then 88 i reshoved into KQ and held.

This hand, I was obviously raise /calling then he min riases back, and for the life of me, it just made me think I really had to lay it. I mean, I'm probly crazy, I looked at the structure and thought ,meh, the bb will next be 2,500 and I've only riased small.... basically I ended up convincing myself the JJ was no good.


I'm half regretting cos as I post this i have now a short stack...at break here was the chat.

Neab: wish i went with that hand now crowned
Neab: what did u have?
Crowned_expl: I also wisj you had
Neab: u have AA?
Crowned_expl: I had you and leave it at that
Crowned_expl: did you have slick
Neab: i had a pair
Neab: i had a pretty gd pair :/
Crowned_expl: so did i


But forgetting that, is there ever a case for folding here?

P.S I know was chatting here again, but understand it's always when im sure am folding and nearly always in these spots where I end up posting the hand lol.

PokerStars Game #29719355570: Tournament #173034481, $50+$5 Hold'em No Limit - Level XV (1000/2000) - 2009/06/24 1:29:17 ET
Table '173034481 157' 9-max Seat #7 is the button
Seat 1: maitre d2 (47448 in chips)
Seat 2: tweet707 (54232 in chips)
Seat 3: aletz99 (73216 in chips)
Seat 4: herdgolf86 (53465 in chips)
Seat 5: Neab (44820 in chips)
Seat 6: Martino420 (17060 in chips)
Seat 7: Crowned_expl (27384 in chips)
Seat 8: Wulfster (91305 in chips)
Seat 9: kingstain (50892 in chips)
maitre d2: posts the ante 200
tweet707: posts the ante 200
aletz99: posts the ante 200
herdgolf86: posts the ante 200
Neab: posts the ante 200
Martino420: posts the ante 200
Crowned_expl: posts the ante 200
Wulfster: posts the ante 200
kingstain: posts the ante 200
Wulfster: posts small blind 1000
kingstain: posts big blind 2000
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Neab [Js Jd]
maitre d2: folds
tweet707: folds
aletz99: folds
herdgolf86: folds
Neab: raises 3100 to 5100
Martino420: folds
Crowned_expl: raises 4900 to 10000
Wulfster: folds
kingstain: folds
Neab said, "ya know its funny"
Neab said, "if u shoved"
Neab said, "i wudda insta called with this hand"
Neab said, "now im thinkin of folding"
Neab said, ":O"
Neab said, "show?"
Neab: folds
Uncalled bet (4900) returned to Crowned_expl
Crowned_expl said, "h"
Crowned_expl collected 15000 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 15000 | Rake 0
Seat 1: maitre d2 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: tweet707 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: aletz99 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: herdgolf86 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: Neab folded before Flop
Seat 6: Martino420 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: Crowned_expl (button) collected (15000)
Seat 8: Wulfster (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 9: kingstain (big blind) folded before Flop


Edit - Just busted like 40th , shoving 31k bb @ 3k with Ks9s into AJ in the bb.

[Kemics]

this is just me (someone who is better than me will be probably correct me) but for the love of god stop chatting in every hand. You gain nothing, and give away loads of info. For example, anyone watching the chat now knows you can be pushed off hands to make nitty lay downs.

Maybe it dosn't make that much difference, but in my mind you are giving away info on how you play, or at least how you think and why give your opponents an unnecessary edge, however small.

if you get lonely in MTT's open up MSN or IRC or something

[Ciso_B]

this is just me (someone who is better than me will be probably correct me) but for the love of god stop chatting in every hand. You gain nothing, and give away loads of info. For example, anyone watching the chat now knows you can be pushed off hands to make nitty lay downs.

Maybe it dosn't make that much difference, but in my mind you are giving away info on how you play, or at least how you think and why give your opponents an unnecessary edge, however small.

if you get lonely in MTT's open up MSN or IRC or something

Yeah, I agree chatting is a no no. Although I didn't explicitly say what i had.

LOL, it can get lonely, but I assure you it's not that reason why I occasionally chat in the table.

I don't like the ringing of msn and irc? Well between me and you kemics, I don't like the people who chat in there. Specifically a dutch cash game twat who has his head up his arse.

[miaowmiaowchowface]

not insane, terrible. this is why ur getting your ass kicked

[kingetje]

I don't like the ringing of msn and irc? Well between me and you kemics, I don't like the people who chat in there. Specifically a dutch cash game twat who has his head up his arse.

fffffffuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu

[Ciso_B]

I don't like the ringing of msn and irc? Well between me and you kemics, I don't like the people who chat in there. Specifically a dutch cash game twat who has his head up his arse.

fffffffuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu

haha, well spotted marn.


Nah that isn't why im losing eldar, this fold was a rarity. Reason why I'm unsure is cos' I've only got 22bbs at stage of raising, probably should go with it...meh.

[miaowmiaowchowface]

I don't like the ringing of msn and irc? Well between me and you kemics, I don't like the people who chat in there. Specifically a dutch cash game twat who has his head up his arse.

fffffffuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu

haha, well spotted marn.


Nah that isn't why im losing eldar, this fold was a rarity. Reason why I'm unsure is cos' I've only got 22bbs at stage of raising, probably should go with it...meh.

O RLY

[Assistance]

Maybe it dosn't make that much difference, but in my mind you are giving away info on how you play, or at least how you think

agreed
you are willing to dig for info to validate your own move... needing reassurance that your playing right.

but what you have done is told the table they can out play you preflop with a raise.... 4th best hand and you won't even peel a flop?

its very possible that the other player was making a move simply because you were in the hand, with a little game theory the probabilities of a successful bluff vs you has increased.

table chat is fine, but watch for how you try to steal info, and NEVER be honest about your own hand. Say something stupid like set mining or draw...

wiht 16bbs I had AK, this particular played 3xed from ep, and the sb with 10x shoved, I re shoved, and we all got it in.

that should be an easy fold

[Kemics]

wiht 16bbs I had AK, this particular played 3xed from ep, and the sb with 10x shoved, I re shoved, and we all got it in.

that should be an easy fold

heads up with 15bb in the pot, no one to act behind us and we have AK and have him covered. Totally standard call imo. (assuming i understand the situation correctly, isn't %100 clear in ciso's post)

[edit] just re-read the whole of ciso's post and i think there were 3 in the pot, but couldnt work out in what position etc

[Ciso_B]

The AK, wasn't a huge decision for me imo. As I recall, the guy who opened was early position, but at the time we were playing 7 handed i beleive, and the sb had a merely 11bb. I mean I'm not folding A-K here, sb can absolutely have a weaker hand than AK, and if I re shove here, sometimes the original raiser will fold. Giving great odds and probably a better hand. As it turned out the sb had 66 and me and the raiser both had big slick, which was very inconvenient lol.But It's not much of a decision with my stack at the time.


This J-J though, really isn't straightforward to me. The opponent here, is projecting great strength with that mini raise, (literally like KK,AA to me)I'm convinced he knows that mini raise will often just tempt people to 4 bet shove over it. Not only that , but any unmade hand or made hand not especially looking for a call will surely re shove with these stacks.

There's plenty of bad players out there, and this might be one of them doing something funky, but at the time in question ,if i fold , I have 40,000 ish wtih bb at 2,000 and 8 mins to be 2,500. I felt I could do better than getting my chips in than this spot.

Hard to say if i was right, I ended up shoving Ks9s into AJ, where Im like 6-4 underdog, which isn't great , but to me, still probably better odds than what I was with the JJ.

Hope that clears few things up.

[Assistance]

sorry I guess I shouldn't comment on hand histories as I play poker with math, but it would be helpful to include all the info of a hand if one wants critique.

sounds like a pay as you go card when your talking with the gf and you run out of minutes just before she tells you where she is to be be picked up.

run the numbers on that, doesn't look good

[miaowmiaowchowface]

maybe you should wait til you have aces then its hard to get your money in TOO bad


seriously comeon not folding JJ for 16bb or whatever with a blind increase soon wtf are you thinking, you're way too passive/nitty to ever go far in these and ive already told u thats why ur struggling

[Ciso_B]

maybe you should wait til you have aces then its hard to get your money in TOO bad


seriously comeon not folding JJ for 16bb or whatever with a blind increase soon wtf are you thinking, you're way too passive/nitty to ever go far in these and ive already told u thats why ur struggling

It is a close decision for me, since I felt like I'd be shown AA/KK at least 1/2 the time in this spot simply based on the guy's re raise size.

But forgetting that, I'm not too nitty late on in these anyway, find it quite offensive tbh.

Wins: 1 0.76% Return on Investment: 48.56%
Seconds: 1 0.76% Average Finish: 35/100
Thirds: 0 0.00% Average Expectation: $18.50
Top 3 Rate: 2 1.52% Average Field Size: 1,705
Final Tables: 6 4.55% Average Buy-Ins Won: 1.709
Cashes: 33 25.00%
Total Played: 132


25 % cash rate, 48% ROI for june 2009. I'm not struggling lately.


Ya know what I'd love to do, paste a hand history of a mtt I go far in and let u look over it. I'd take any criticism dished at me if someone was willing to look over it.I asked aelred recently but he didn't want to so if anyone wants to, you're welcome. I ll happily post/pm it.

[miaowmiaowchowface]

maybe you should wait til you have aces then its hard to get your money in TOO bad


seriously comeon not folding JJ for 16bb or whatever with a blind increase soon wtf are you thinking, you're way too passive/nitty to ever go far in these and ive already told u thats why ur struggling

It is a close decision for me, since I felt like I'd be shown AA/KK at least 1/2 the time in this spot simply based on the guy's re raise size.

But forgetting that, I'm not too nitty late on in these anyway, find it quite offensive tbh.

Wins: 1 0.76% Return on Investment: 48.56%
Seconds: 1 0.76% Average Finish: 35/100
Thirds: 0 0.00% Average Expectation: $18.50
Top 3 Rate: 2 1.52% Average Field Size: 1,705
Final Tables: 6 4.55% Average Buy-Ins Won: 1.709
Cashes: 33 25.00%
Total Played: 132


25 % cash rate, 48% ROI for june 2009. I'm not struggling lately.


Ya know what I'd love to do, paste a hand history of a mtt I go far in and let u look over it. I'd take any criticism dished at me if someone was willing to look over it.I asked aelred recently but he didn't want to so if anyone wants to, you're welcome. I ll happily post/pm it.

I'm happy to check it out in the public forum, and give my personal advice (not all should be taken to heart though as im losing myself atm lol=])

[Ciso_B]

Cool, I'll paste a hh some point tonight. I won't take it to heart and would appreciate any constructive criticism.