Line check, AK vs. BB

[odlozilik]

Jack, how often do we have the chance to hit top pair top kicker or better and someone willing to pay us off during the tourney? Even though we play the whole tourney perfectly, we have no guarantee to cash in, because the blinds will relatively shorten our stack sooner or later and we have to play push/pray poker.
I think this hand is good opportunity to increase our stack rapidly. I don't see sets possible so easily, AA or JJ would reraise pf, quad 6's are not so probable too, maybe just rivered 777. If he rivered the flush, that's life, but hero was probably the favourite the whole hand until the river and putting chips in was good play.

[Jauron]

What range are you putting him on, hands that beat us since this was posted?

If you check the turn it better be to induce a river bet. There is no reason for pot control on turn, we beat most of his range. Even though the bet is a little big we still get value here a lot since people don't fold early. It's like you think saving chips is the goal.

The board is drawy, it's early and he's check calling. Check the river if you fear he has a better hand not the turn.

[kompis]

n this situation, your either way ahead or way behind, so thats a EV of 0. So why bet?

the reason u bet is for value

[JackB03]

Ok, so your way, you just lost 25%-50% of your stack, while I lost less and still up. Id look for a better position to get chips in the pot. My point here is just a general view. Its not an everytime play. Like I said, alot depends on the style of your opponent. He gives us no style or anything of that matter, so i give a general summary.

My point is for early round of tourneys and NL cash games. Small hands in NL are top pair, a pair, and over pair. Anything less is a bluff or folded. Anything more beats you. Thats pretty obvious hopefully to everyone. So with a small hand, keep the pot small compared to your stack size and blinds. Thats all im saying. A big hand, such as a set, or straight, sure bet out and find a way to get your opponent whole stack in the pot. Thats when you maximize.

Im not saying im 100% correct, but im not saying im wrong either. Something that is important, is lose less with losing. The way I explained was pretty much the minimum i couldve lost and found out alot of information out of the hand, without losing chips.

If the player was super aggressive and called weak hands alot, then sure, value bet would be ok for the turn. I dont think a pot-size bet, because now his implied odds were correct for him to call on the flop. But other than that, value betting a person like that would be ok.

My idea is just something to think about when you play next time. Its mainly a strategy for NL cash games but use well in early round, slow blind raising tourneys. If you dont believe me, check out Harrington on NL Cash Games.

[JackB03]

and the EV 0 part, on the turn, if your opponent doesnt have anything, and u bet, he folds. If he does have something, he raises you fold. So u dont gain any more profit from him. So how can you bet for value when there is none?

[miaowmiaowchowface]

Nah nah you got it all wrong.
The flop bet is nicely sized because TPTK isn't a weak hand at all in a donkament (or a cash game) it's the nuts as far as you're concerned, and against a spastic who doesn't know how to play your concern should be to get all ur chips in vs his large range ASAP. The turn is also fine, nothing is really changed and we can try to milk him for all hes got on the river, or check back a really nasty card (not many).
Originally I don't like the call but now I do on the river... it could be some semiweak holding that freaks out on the river because he had no plan the whole way, like Ax, Jx or something dumb like KQ. Most spastics lean towards slowplaying flushes, I'm gonna expect him to show up with a six, a weird full house or something u beat. Call imo

[odlozilik]

and the EV 0 part, on the turn, if your opponent doesnt have anything, and u bet, he folds. If he does have something, he raises you fold. So u dont gain any more profit from him. So how can you bet for value when there is none?

Hero bets for value, because he beats the most hands in villain's range (weaker ace, flush draw, middle pair...).

[JackB03]

Guess ur not getting it... My opinion is in general. We have nothing on the player he is playing against nor the hero's table image. So how can u say, the "spastic" all in, is weak?? You dont even know the player your playing against. And looking at TPTK, in NL, is not all big. Read Harrington on NL Cash Games. Im sure he can clear that up for u.

[JackB03]

and the EV 0 part, on the turn, if your opponent doesnt have anything, and u bet, he folds. If he does have something, he raises you fold. So u dont gain any more profit from him. So how can you bet for value when there is none?

Hero bets for value, because he beats the most hands in villain's range (weaker ace, flush draw, middle pair...).

The EV 0 is on the turn... Your value betting that your talking about, is for the river.

[JackB03]

Again....this is a general play. This isnt something you do everytime. If everyone bets on the turn everytime like your saying, then thats bad poker. You give away to much information about yourself. This is all going by what information we got.

You cant say anything about the table, and how there fishes, blah blah blah, because we have no idea how the table is. He didnt say anything about that.

[miaowmiaowchowface]

Guess ur not getting it... My opinion is in general. We have nothing on the player he is playing against nor the hero's table image. So how can u say, the "spastic" all in, is weak?? You dont even know the player your playing against. And looking at TPTK, in NL, is not all big. Read Harrington on NL Cash Games. Im sure he can clear that up for u.

i know that almost everyone at the table is terrible, and don't really care what harrington has to say although im not a donkament xpert=/

[odlozilik]

How can you say there is no value to bet the turn? If villain is on the flush draw (as he the most probably is), do you think he would fold to hero's turn bet? And even if he would fold, shouldn't we bet anyway to protect from him hitting the flush on the river?

[supafrey]

Jack in a year or two you're going to start seeing the flaws in HOH. I don't mean to sound condescending but the era of TPTK not being good on a low-paired board in a micro stakes donkament is many moons ago.

[Felting]

He had, drum roll please,

5 2 of clubs.

I called