Live Hand for Discussion

[xDiamond_CutteRx]

$1/$3 No Limit, 9-handed. Both LP players are very loose passive. BB is a typical cross between TAG/weak-tight.

Stack sizes:
CO: $200
Button: $250
Hero SB: $200
BB: $120

All fold to CO, who calls $3. Button calls $3. Hero calls $2 with [Jd 8d]. BB raises to $12. CO and Button call $9. Hero calls $9.

Pot: $45
Flop [Js 4d 3h]
Hero checks.
BB bets $12.
CO calls.
Button calls.
Hero raises to $40.

Thoughts?

[gumbie]

Fold preflop twice. Fold flop.

[miaowmiaowchowface]

I'd say there's a good chance ur up against JJ. Why would he make such a retardedly small raise... maybe Aces i guess (dry board). Either way, a raise will find out where u are. Fold to any pressure without improvement imo. (diamond counts)

thus.. i like ur play I think... also I'd prolly fold PF after the original raise.

edit... didn't see the other 2 called... Could be a slowplayed hand amongst the 3, but I guess it ain't that likely, they could just be peeling. Not so sure if ur play will be profitable over the long run... if u get a caller ur OOP with a prolly the worst holding, like i said before, I'd give up without improvement.

hope that made SOME sense lol

[Phil14312]

As the last money i put into the pot fine. But I'd rather keep the pot small OOP.

[UrAteUp]

You could be up against J10 on the low scale...on the high...QQ, KK or AA. That raise should for sure tell you where you stand. Fold to a push.

[Ciso_B]

I usually like your lines DC but not in this hand, you bloating the pot up out of position. I think leading out would be better move here, otherwise if you check raise with J -8 in this spot you may aswell have nothing anyway, if that makes any sense. With a bet , call , call, its pretty possibly you're already beat in this hand by a QJ or something in that region. I think you checked to see what everyone was going to do simply cos there was the raise pre flop then felt obliged to r/r. Yeah I don't love the play, but eh I aint no cash game prodigy.

[xDiamond_CutteRx]

OK, I agree with all of you guys and I was not a fan of the way I played the hand. Preflop I didn't find it awful semi-deep and multi-way, but after I decided to raise the flop, I was cursing myself as soon as I made the move... surprisingly, they all folded; my initial suspicion was that all the players were pretty weak and would likely fold to a check-raise squeeze (remember, the two LP players are very loose passive so I did not figure either of them for a good hand). Somehow, I actually thought I had the best hand given the action.

That said, I was still not a fan of the play, and I wouldn't advise anyone else to play it that way. You guys had a lot of the same thoughts I did when I was running back over it.

Specifically, these lines:

I think leading out would be better move here, otherwise if you check raise with J -8 in this spot you may aswell have nothing anyway, if that makes any sense. With a bet , call , call, its pretty possibly you're already beat in this hand by a QJ or something in that region.

As the last money i put into the pot fine.

I love the way you guys put it because the conclusion I came to later when analyzing the hand is that what I really did was turn my hand into a bluff. Ciso, you're right on when you say I might as well have nothing, because my hand is totally irrelevant here (although I may have outs if called). Because my initial suspicion was that everyone was weak here, my hand doesn't matter much (although my having a Jack makes it less likely another player holds one), and if one opponent DOES have a better hand, it will be hard for a loose passive player to fold. Hence, after I put the money in (bad time to start planning), I had the same idea as Phil--unless I hit an 8, that better be the last money I put into the pot.

I mostly posted the hand to be sure the line looks as silly as it does. Thank you for confirming my donkness. I thought it was interesting though because my suspicion that I had the best hand is actually totally irrelevant to my raise! If I'm outkicked, a calling station isn't folding, and if I have the best hand, it's unlikely anyone is calling. So under equity definitions, what I'm really doing is bluffing, even though it may not look like it.

[Phil14312]

Whenever I make a move like that I always say its the last money in the pot, but then its not and whenever more money goes in you are basically screwed.

[MrDarling]

actually, the more I think about the less I hate it.
Especially with your description of BB, and if you have a decent image.

And you are right, your hand is almost irrelevant and I'm pretty sure is not the best hand at the time (am guessing BB had JT, J9 or TT)

As you can see from BB's lead, its wouldn't have helped at all. In a loose passive game, people seems to peel with over cards or even a small pair. And you would have had no idea where you're at and will probably hate most turns.
The c/r represent a very strong hand (2 pairs at worse), the BB being a tight week will find an easy fold even with TP. Especially not being last to act. And the other two probably do not have much of a hand sinc they just called his donk.

And it is nice that your hand have some equity.

[miaowmiaowchowface]

actually, the more I think about the less I hate it.
Especially with your description of BB, and if you have a decent image.

And you are right, your hand is almost irrelevant and I'm pretty sure is not the best hand at the time (am guessing BB had JT, J9 or TT)

As you can see from BB's lead, its wouldn't have helped at all. In a loose passive game, people seems to peel with over cards or even a small pair. And you would have had no idea where you're at and will probably hate most turns.
The c/r represent a very strong hand (2 pairs at worse), the BB being a tight week will find an easy fold even with TP. Especially not being last to act. And the other two probably do not have much of a hand sinc they just called his donk.

And it is nice that your hand have some equity.

J3 or J4 or 34??
He's representing 33 or 44 and MAYBE JA (depends on image i spose) ... No other hands make sense...(not that it matters, because these guys wont have in between hands like 2 pair themselves)

And yeah the guy who said you may as well be holding nothing was completely on point imho... u never get called by worse, its just a pure bluff. ( I still think its a pretty decent play... I'd just be worried about the raiser having JJ/AA)

[gumbie]

Both LP players are very loose passive.

But they fold to 28$ more in a 120$ pot.

Something does not compute.

[xDiamond_CutteRx]

Both LP players are very loose passive.

But they fold to 28$ more in a 120$ pot.

Something does not compute.

What doesn't compute is their idiocy. They don't think about pot odds. All they see is a check-raise, which always means a set.

[gumbie]

What doesn't compute is their idiocy. They don't think about pot odds. All they see is a check-raise, which always means a set.

Now I like your play better, and think you should probably do this every other hand

[xDiamond_CutteRx]

Well you are my hero gumbie, so that's encouraging.

[suitedaces84]

I like it if it will result in your opponents not bluffing for the rest of the hand. Even if you do have the best hand now your opponents probably have ~25% equity, that's about $30 worth of equity. Making them fold that away is good.