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Nut flush draw on the flop facing a really active player.

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Nut flush draw on the flop facing a really active player.

Postby jimmer » Sat Oct 03, 2009 4:53 pm GMT

I think I may of just answered my own question when thinking of the title, but I'll ask it anyway.

It's the early-middle stages of a 6 seater tourney. (The late reg finished 20 minutes ago). I’ve been at the table 10 minutes and just doubled up with pocket Aces. Apart from that, I've been sitting tight.

KaeptaenIglo is pretty active preflop and either limps or raises 4/6 hands every rotation.

PokerStars Game #33595249266: Tournament #199550556, $2.00+$0.20 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level V (75/150) - 2009/10/03 16:13:16 ET
Table '199550556 157' 6-max Seat #5 is the button
Seat 1: jbdb3 (8695 in chips)
Seat 2: badbeatphil (5050 in chips)
Seat 3: Beranto (4625 in chips)
Seat 4: Qazorkins (4050 in chips)
Seat 5: screwcap (9040 in chips)
Seat 6: KaeptaenIglo (9390 in chips)
KaeptaenIglo: posts small blind 75
jbdb3: posts big blind 150
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to jbdb3 [Ac 6c]
badbeatphil: folds
Beranto: folds
Qazorkins: folds
screwcap: folds
KaeptaenIglo: raises 300 to 450
jbdb3: calls 300
*** FLOP *** [Jc 4h 2c]
KaeptaenIglo: bets 900
jbdb3: ????

Due to the texture of the flop, and the fact that KaeptaenIglo sees alot of flops, my initial reaction is to raise him. However, i also know it's early days and I've done quite well so far picking on other players.

What do I do here?
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Re: Nut flush draw on the flop facing a really active player.

Postby HalfSugar » Sat Oct 03, 2009 6:35 pm GMT

Take the cheap card, let him fire again on the turn and reassess if you have bricked. If you've hit, flat turn assuming he bets and then raise any river (natch).
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Re: Nut flush draw on the flop facing a really active player.

Postby xDiamond_CutteRx » Sat Oct 03, 2009 8:13 pm GMT

I am a big fan of raising here, because that's going to give you more options on the turn, to either semi-bluff, take a free card, or bet your made hand without having it look like you made a flush.

Even if he ships on you, it's not the end of the world. You have 9 clean outs, probably more unless he has something like AJ.
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Re: Nut flush draw on the flop facing a really active player.

Postby crack » Sat Oct 03, 2009 8:50 pm GMT

I would raise. There not really much more of a perfect flop you can ask for with A6cc. Overcard with the nutty flush draw is good enough for me.

I was going to say maybe rr preflop some of the time but I think in an $2 tourney people do not find a lot of folds ever so maybe it is best to just call. If I was playing a bigger tournament where I thought I could be up against not a complete tard then I may rr pf and take it down some of the time.
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Re: Nut flush draw on the flop facing a really active player.

Postby miaowmiaowchowface » Sun Oct 04, 2009 9:41 am GMT

easy raise call.
im guessing u called and found urself in a tough spot on the turn
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Re: Nut flush draw on the flop facing a really active player.

Postby jimmer » Sun Oct 04, 2009 10:05 am GMT

miaowmiaowchowface wrote:easy raise call.
im guessing u called and found urself in a tough spot on the turn
No. Actually i suddenly realised this hand could cost me a lot (because that's the way KaeptaenIglo plays), so decided to fold and keep chipping away at the others (which was making me money).

However I knew folding was the bad option, I just didn't know what was the right one!
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Re: Nut flush draw on the flop facing a really active player.

Postby Ciso_B » Sun Oct 04, 2009 12:51 pm GMT

winning this pot without showdown is "chopping away", I think folding is the worst option for sure, i prefer raise but certainly dont think flatting is terribad, although, i like a raise. You're not in bad shape vs anything and alot of people play sb like this with any 2 cards, so yeh, riase/get it in.
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Re: Nut flush draw on the flop facing a really active player.

Postby xDiamond_CutteRx » Sun Oct 04, 2009 3:16 pm GMT

jimmer wrote:
miaowmiaowchowface wrote:easy raise call.
im guessing u called and found urself in a tough spot on the turn
No. Actually i suddenly realised this hand could cost me a lot (because that's the way KaeptaenIglo plays), so decided to fold and keep chipping away at the others (which was making me money).

However I knew folding was the bad option, I just didn't know what was the right one!

Yeesh, folding with over 35% equity. That's really, really bad. You gotta be ready to go with these hands that have pretty decent equity and really good semi-bluff potential.

If you're going to fold on a flop like this, wtf did you even call preflop for?
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Re: Nut flush draw on the flop facing a really active player.

Postby jimmer » Sun Oct 04, 2009 4:54 pm GMT

xDiamond_CutteRx wrote:If you're going to fold on a flop like this, wtf did you even call preflop for?
Totally agree.

Up until this point, I was doing ok slowly building my stack by playing small controlled pots.

Then when I get dealt this hand preflop it seemed a good idea to mix it up and call, but when he then bets out the pot on the flop I'm thinking "I could lose my whole stack here and don't need to" and paniced.

I knew this was a bad move, I just didn't know what the right one was.

If this was a cash table, I would of raised, but when I'm messing with someone who could knock me out the tourney I wondered if I should be more cautious.

There was a lot of voices in my head at the time, some saying "go for it" others saying "back off". I just didn't know which one to listen to!
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Re: Nut flush draw on the flop facing a really active player.

Postby miaowmiaowchowface » Mon Oct 05, 2009 9:34 am GMT

are u scared money possibly? ive never heard of any1 flopping a nfd and folding lol
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