Online Multi-Table Tournaments

[Ben4040]

I have been playing Texas Hold'em consistently since November. After turning 18 in January, I decided to buy-in to an online casino. I chose PartyPoker because it was the only site I could find where you didn't have to be 21, plus I had heard about it on the WPT so I figured it must be a nice site to play on.

Anyway, I have been very successful at the $5/$1 10-player single table tournaments. I use some of my winnings to try the $5/$1 multi-table tournament on the weekends. For some reason I don't experience even close to the same degree of success at the multi-table tournaments as I have at the single table tournaments. Three times I have been eliminated with pocket kings by pocket aces... I know, that's just bad luck. But generally in multi-table tournaments I find that I am always holding a number of chips significantly lower than the tournament average, which makes it difficult to play and, before long (usually an hour into the tournament before even the first break), I find the blinds are so large that I am eventually eliminated.

I don't play any different at the multi-table tournaments than I do at the single table tournaments. I don't feel I'm too conservative that it eventually catches up with me. I'm just not sure if its probably a spell of bad luck, or if maybe there is a factor to the mult-table tournaments that I'm not taking into consideration. Any thoughts?

I'm hoping to hit the money at one of these multi-table tournaments so I can help my parents with my college expenses (that's where all of my winnings are going). :D

[BobS]

Hey Ben -

If you do well in the single tables than you should do well in the multi's. The same basic strategies hold up (i.e. play tight/aggressive and wait for the maniacs to get eliminated). In single table, this is only a few people. In a multi, it's likely hundreds. The challenging part is learning how to play "not too tight/agressive" that the blinds catch up to you. This is the key. If I had it figured out, I'd tell you. Sorry I don't.

The only other thing I know from experience is you NEED to get lucky a few times do do well in multi's. You MUST put your chips on the line a few times hoping to double up. Wait for the high pairs and push em all in. If you don't, you'll never get anywhere as far as stack size goes. A good time to do it is when you are getting close to money. If the tourney pays the top 50, and there are 50-75 ppl left, push em in. You will likely at least pick up the blinds. If you get a caller, see above about luck.

Just don't try this with 8-3os, alright. You need to at least give yourself a shot at winning a showdown if you're called. If you can double up a few times, you may make it far into the money. If you bust out, hell at least you gave it a shot. Besides, most multi's pay didly squat for the first 50% of places in the money anyway. Why play tight/aggressive when you're getting close to the top 50 only to get blinded away, finish 42nd, and win a whopping $1.82.

Good luck. Try to play as many freeroll/$1.00 tourneys as possible. Although they don't play out as realistically as a higher buy-in tourney, they're still great practice.

[Ben4040]

The challenging part is learning how to play "not too tight/agressive" that the blinds catch up to you. This is the key.

I definitely can agree with that. Like you said, in the multi-table tourneys there are likely a couple hundred people who don't know what they are doing, playing tight enough to let eliminate themselves while at the same time picking up a few nice pots can really help. My best finish was 350 out of roughly 1300 players a few weeks ago. The prize pool begins at place 130. Like you said, hoping to double up as I approached the prize pool I went all-in with A-J (I was sitting on about 1700 chips and the big blind was 200). A guy called me with K-10 and got lucky to win the pot. This is the bad luck I'm talking about. Maybe I'm applying all of the right techniques, I just haven't won enough key hands to endure the first two hours of these tournaments.

My goal is to one day make the $5/$1 final table. To me, being in the top 10 out of 1300 or 1400 players would itself be an accomplishment.

[Supersquid191]

Well, I can't tell you how to do change your play for multi because I don't know how you play single.

I can tell you how I do it. In single, you only have to worry about 10 guys. I play a little more aggressive here. In multi, I tighten up. I don't like to put all my chips at risk early. Even with KK i would bet big, but I dont't like to go all in because 1 - i dont want to get knocked out and 2 I want someone to call me. Also remember there are alot of players in multi, you can let them do the dirty work and move up by protecting what you start with. The really loose players will knock themselves out early. As you get later in the tourney, you will get tighter players and because the blinds get so high it is more economical to go all in. I find in later rounds you will only get 1 possibly 2 calls with your all in, even if no one calls taking down the blinds is a nice profit. I made the mistake early of going all in right off the bat before, I'd get half the table call - it made for a great pot but often I was out drawn. If everyone folded I would only get a very small blind. Also, if 2 are already all in, becareful about calling. Usually you will have to beat a very good hand, and you will move up in position by letting them slug it out.

Hope this helps. I haven't been able to win a multi-tourn yet. Best finish is 3rd and I have placed in the top 10 a number of times, top 20 consistently. Usually I play tourneys with only a couple hundred players though.

[Supersquid191]

oh yeah, and at some point you will have to catch the right cards at the right time regardless of how skillful you play.

[Ben4040]

Just curious, why do a lot of people dislike PartyPoker? I've noticed they charge slightly higher entrance fees in certain cases, but overall I have been satisfied. If I ever have a question and send them an email I get a response in 5 minutes -- it's that fast.

One drawback I guess is that they don't have many freerolls, unless it is for their leaderboard players... but that's understandable because they want to reward those who have invested the most.

One feature that would be really neat is if you could customize your own private NL tournament for a group of friends. PartyPoker could charge normal entrance fee (10% of buy-in) and the organizer of the tournament could customize the blinds and payout structure.

[wEbMaStEr]

1 major difference between single and multi table tourneys is that in multi's you are playing against a pretty much full table at all times.
when you're playing on a single then the opportunities to steal pots/blinds etc increase as the number of players drop.
I would say, in a multi, tight/aggressive all the way if you only play 3 hands an hour, they should be hands you would be prepared to go all in with, hands that are gonne be good enough to win with. If you do only play 3 hands an hour you aint gonna go bust i would think.
Also in multi's, you are looking at a 5+ hour tournament, don't worry about chip averages until the blinds are seriously hurting you (i.e. when each orbit is taking 1/2 your stack, thats the time to start worrying)
Don't be looking to be the chip leader after the 1st hour, very rarely these guys go on to win the thing. (Altho if you are lucky enoough to find yourself as such, be happy about it but dont go mad! 8) )
Even if you are only doubling your stack the 1st couple hours you are still comfortable so don't panic!
Never panic! (until you find you HAVE to go all in with crap to survive )
Relax, take it easy, only play premium hands, don't boher trying to steal blinds until they are seriously worth your while.
As soon as you know you're hand is beaten, drop it like a hot potato

[stocky300]

Hey all,

I play a few tourneys at pokerpages.com. I do ok but got bombed out of the last one at position 60 something out of 300 something. the prizes started at position 30. So I'm 4,000 above the average stack and decide to steal a blind so I can milk into the top 30.
My hole cards were A J suited so I lose my mind and go all in. Got called by pocket aces and of course lost like I should have. Lesson here is that I worked hard to get into that position and lost my patience. If I would have raised less, he still would have called but maybe I could have regained some sense of composure.

[Ben4040]

Well I played in the PartyPoker $5/$1 multi-table tournament this morning and placed 158 out of 1256. That's my best finish ever. I went all-in with QJ and lost to AJ. So close to the prizepool too! Oh well, it was still a blast. I will give it another shot next weekend.

[Devedander]

I find the best strategy to multi table is to get used to staying up late, then play a late game. Lots of people wil start playing a multi, only to realize 2 hours into it they are soooo tired and will either drop out, give away their chips, or just play bad.

Honestly, if you went to a casino and could pick a table where everyone was half asleep, woudln't you?

I usually do this, and while I almost always finish in the top 20%, the late night games I tend to finish in top 10% and usually if I am not getting tired myself, I can garauntee myself better than 50th out of 1500.

[Ben4040]

Still can't get in the money at the multi-tables...

***** Hand History for Game 639418350 *****
200/400 TourneyTexasHTGameTable (NL) (Tournament 3959071) - Mon May 31 12:09:40 EDT 2004
Table Multi-Table(16417) Table 16 (Real Money) -- Seat 2 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 1: Lokijohn (2750)
Seat 2: pokerpimp69 (3245)
Seat 3: cmadsen791 (2750)
Seat 4: RumJungle (1390)
Seat 5: BIGLIB10 (7215)
Seat 6: nickymorgan (4000)
Seat 7: RA447 (3225)
Seat 8: Jimi (9583)
Seat 9: mustbenice (1345)
Seat 10: SilentV (1975)
cmadsen791 posts small blind (100)
RumJungle posts big blind (200)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to SilentV [ Kc, Ad ]
BIGLIB10 folds.
nickymorgan folds.
RA447 folds.
Jimi folds.
mustbenice folds.
SilentV raises (1975) to 1975
SilentV is all-In.
Lokijohn folds.
pokerpimp69 raises (3245) to 3245
pokerpimp69 is all-In.
cmadsen791 folds.
RumJungle folds.
** Dealing Flop ** : [ Ac, 4h, 2c ]
** Dealing Turn ** : [ 4s ]
** Dealing River ** : [ Qh ]
Creating Main Pot with $4250 with SilentV
Creating Side Pot 1 with $1270 with pokerpimp69
** Summary **
Main Pot: 4250 | Side Pot 1: 1270
Board: [ Ac 4h 2c 4s Qh ]
Lokijohn balance 2750, didn't bet (folded)
pokerpimp69 balance 5520, bet 3245, collected 5520, net +2275 [ Qs Qc ] [ a full house, Queens full of fours -- Qs,Qc,Qh,4h,4s ]
cmadsen791 balance 2650, lost 100 (folded)
RumJungle balance 1190, lost 200 (folded)
BIGLIB10 balance 7215, didn't bet (folded)
nickymorgan balance 4000, didn't bet (folded)
RA447 balance 3225, didn't bet (folded)
Jimi balance 9583, didn't bet (folded)
mustbenice balance 1345, didn't bet (folded)
SilentV balance 0, lost 1975 [ Kc Ad ] [ two pairs, aces and fours -- Ad,Ac,Kc,4h,4s ]

He had pocket queens and caught his third queen on the river! Why did I have to catch an ace on the flop? I thought I was going to win the hand and then it was like someone knocked the wind out of me. I went from elation to disgust in less than a second. I can't get a break at these multi-table tournaments. :D

[PuckJunkieNY]

It's tough luck, but why go all-in preflop?
If everyone folds, you only pickup the blinds. Is that what you intended? If someone holds pocket pairs (or high ones like this guy) they already have the preflop advantage. I mean there were 4 people still to act, so you don't know what they might hold. I would rather just raise it up healthy for sure to scare off any limpers and see who really has a hand. Worse case if all fold is you pick up the blinds w/o risking all you chips. I would expect Mr. QQ to call that healthy raise to see the flop, but now when you hit the Ace on the flop you have power to bet him off the pot. He already knows you are likely to hold a good starting hand and when you bet all-in post flop with a Ace on the board he is much more likely to fold his QQ. If he doesn't and calls then catches the Q on river, it's a bad beat. JMHO

[BobS]

Hang in there Ben. As long as your bankroll alllows, keep playing. I think I played in about 10 on-line multi's before my first money placing (it was a 4th place, though :D ).

You seem to be doing everything correctly, now you just have to have "the luck" to make it a little further.

Case in point - yesterday I was playing a $5 buy in at paradise (about 400ppl, top 50 get paid). Just before the 2nd break, there were about 70 ppl left, and I was a bit short stacked. Two limpers before me on the button. I had 4-4. I pushed em all in, and got a caller, with Q-Q no less (doh). I got the 4 on the river, and went on to finish in the top 25. I had "the luck".

Right after that, I sat down to a $10 sng. SECOND HAND I get A-A. Got into a raising war with a guy who eventually went all in (woo-hoo). He flipped over Q-Q (woo-hoo again). Flop was no help, turn was nothing, river - a damn Q. He even laughed at me. I played the hand right (got the most chips in when I knew I was the favorite) and just got outdrawn. "The luck" was not with me.

Get what I'm saying? As long as you make the right plays, eventually you'll do great. Just don't make any ego driven calls or bone-headed plays and you should do better than most. Even the top pro's don't finish in the money everytime. It usually happens only with "the luck".

[snoogins47]

The biggest piece of advice I can give you, that has helped me more than anything else.

Be aggressive. Always. But don't put your entire tournament on close calls, if you can help it, especially early.

You're always looking to make as many chips as possible in one of these events. However, the name of the game is truly surivival. You have to out last everybody else, to win. So, if you have a situation that is marginal, especially early on, just cut your losses and play the next hand.

I've heard many people that might consider this "playing not to lose," but I hardly consider this the case.

For instance, these people that go all-in early preflop with their mid pocket pairs, in hopes to get a "quick double up," or the people whom call these all-ins with overs...

The way I look at that is, at best, you're a slight favorite. Very slight. Why risk your tournament hoping for a quick double up? Doubling your starting stack in the first three hands isn't going to put you in some dominating position for the rest of the tourney.

In my mind, chip ACCUMULATION is the key to big tournaments. Make your money when you can, lose a little bit when you lose, and try to work your way up in the money while the field narrows.

That's my philosophy at least.

[Ben4040]

Thanks for the advice all. The luck factor has been really been bad lately. It has become a bit frustrating so I took a break for about a week, only to return to find not much has changed with my luck.

The reason I went all-in with AK was because the big blind was 200 and I only had 1900 chips. I knew that, worse case scenerio, someone already had a pair and would call. But being on the short stack, you have to make something happen. Even if the guy with QQ raised me or went all-in I would have called with that hand. Is that a bad play? It's hard on the short stack because you have to take more chances. After the first break in these multi-table tournaments I nearly always find myself on the short stack. One thing though, is some players will call someone on the short stack with Ace high because they know they are desperate. I was hoping someone would call me with Ace high and my K kicker would pull off a win.