Online Pro out Of Order IMO

[Sentinel]

Your analysis is embarrassing

So you ignore every pertinent point I made in my above post and continue to focus on analysis when both were limited and I conceded as such:

1) the hand - Dwan is a far superior player to me, I just gave my thoughts, admitted I could be wrong, and looked forward to feedback. And I was also unaware of the speed of the blinds and the stacks.
2) The body language - limited to generalisations because the only info I have is that 2 min clip.

As for embarrassing - that is what you have done throughout and which, funnily enough, is in the above post and which you have ignored. Hmmm, I wonder why?

As someone that has regular conversations with HSNL players in personal and professional (cards) settings, I'd just like to inform you that your kind of hyper-active analysis is the kind of stuff they laugh at.

Lol. Always makes me laugh when people try and bring others into their posts, to try and gain credibility. It's the equivalent of the lame "me and my friends all think it's funny that..."

Whether you actually talk to such players or not is irrelevant, there is no hyper active analysis at all for you to even laugh at. I made a few observations. Simple. I have not defended any of them to the death or such like - unlike you and your offerings. So basically, you're back to making shit up, like you did in your initial reply to me - and which I called you on.

But the funniest thing of all is that you're guilty of your own charges! All I did, all I ever did was pass comment and admitted I was both inexperienced at poker and limited with the inferences I could make on his actions. And I made a couple of points on each. In one post. End of.

However, you have spent a number of posts over anlysing me! You have made unfounded comments time and time again. You have read my mind and stated just what I (apparently) think. You also claim to know exactly what other people think and what does and does not affect them. You have stated what my education is, who the top 10 players in the world are, and done so based on the monetary gains of everyone playing poker. Which in turn means that you know the winnings of every player in the world - including who has won what in Bobby's Room, in order to make that top 10 list.

And you talk about hyper analysing?

Your wonderful 3 year BA may have taught you "body language"

There you go again, misassuming and making things up again. I have not mentioned my education at all, so unless you're Uri fcking Geller, neither should you.

but your inexperience in this game is making you inappropriately assign far too much importance on irrelevant points.

Inexperience is irrelevant. Human body language is largely a constant across the species - whch is why it can be tracked. All it takes is for the unconscious cues to be read correctly. The cues that cannot be faked. Of course, this requires far more than a 2 minute clip to ensure there are no mitigating reasons for the displayed behaviour.

But the main thing is that I haven't assigned too much relevance on anything. In my original post, and my last post, I made it clear that I had to go with the mainstream and not the individual and that I could well be wrong. I also mentioned that no one can say for sure what the body language means or what Dwan was thinking because, as said, a 2 min clip is not enough to identify with any high level accuracy what the total stranger is subcommunicating.

Yet you still bleat on about over analysis when there has been no such thing - except from you.

And you call me embarrassing?

You're looking to understand complex body signals without understanding even the most basic points of HSNL game setups, how/where they derive their edges from, or ANY knowledge of the poker "industry" that's guiding these decisions.

Spoken like a true buffoon who is talking about an area that he has no understanding or expertise of.

The complex body signals that you refer to are unconscious subcommunications. They are hard wired responses that provide vital information, the content of which varies from person to person, with the majority of signals meaning the same thing from person to person.

Ergo it doesn't matter what industry they are in. They could be international money launderers for all we care. I deal with people from ALL walks of life - and whose lifestyles/careers I have NO idea about at all and are completely alien to me. My peers and I achieve our results by understanding the individual and their body language in relation to that individual. So what would indicate lying in one subject may well be just nerves in another.

The field of expertise is completely irrelevant (much like your posts in this thread). As human beings, with hard wired responses, most actions mean the same thing, which is why I said in 95% of cases, such a motion indicates X, Y or Z.

And the difference between me and you, is when I say top 10 holdem players, I refer to one and only one thing: money. You thinking they need to "make the move to live"

Once again the Bull shit train is in full steam. Toot toot!

Not only did you state as fact that I am a live player, who has figured out what poker is all about, when the opposite is true and with mucho evidence to prove so, but you continue to do so when it has been spelled out for you.

And you call me embarrassing? You're like a dog that tries to hump your leg. No matter how many times you tell it to get down, or that your leg isn't a female dog, it carries on regardless, down it's narrow minded and, ultimately, ill fated path like some sort of f8cked up Duracell bunny.

You said he is one of the top 10 players and I affirmed that that may be the case online. And that to be considered "top 10" by the vast majority that will include more than just clicking a PC at home. Just as the live pros have to adjust to online play so to do the online pros have to adjust to live play.

At no point, when you said he was top 10, did you state that you were referring only to money, so you can stop retconning right away. But the really funny thing is that even if you did - you're still full of shit!

You see, Ivey, Brunson, Negreanu, Hellmuth - even Jamie Gold - have made MORE money than Dwan has. Not just from official tournaments which can be verified but also from the Big Game and assorted cash exploits that are not featured on internet leaderboards.

And do you really know the earnings of EVERY online player in the world? Just like you knew exactly what Dwan was thinking and exactly what does or would not make Dwan nervous? You must do in order to place Dwan in the top 10.

Or is it a case that you're going full steam ahead to Bullshitsville? Toot toot!

You thinking they need to "make the move to live" to prove something to you speaks more loudly than any of your pseudo-scientific behaviouralist crap.

I like this quote. First you say I have a BA then you attempt to mock by calling it pseudo...crap. I didn't know you can have a BA in crap.

You call it pseudo...crap' yet in the very same post you made reference to how these "highly complex signals" are guided by the actions of HS buddies.

You say it's "crap" yet you have repeatedly read my mind, continued to do so when faced with vast swathes of evidence to the contrary, read Dwan's mind, known his very being, know just how much money he has made and how much money everyone else in the world has made and then been able to compile a top ten list! Supafrey the f8cked up Duracell, leg humping, blinkered, bunny, is able to display uncanny prescience yet dismisses proven fact as 'pseudo...crap'.

Dude, anyone who repeatedly flaps their gums about nonsense whilst demonstrating omniscience and clairvoyance is void of calling anything 'pseudo...crap'.

Oh, and by the way, this 'pseudo-scientific behaviouralist crap' is accepted fact. And has been used by everyone from the FBI to presidents and premiers. Not to mention by myself - who earns a good living from it and whose very success is determined by reading such cues correctly.

The real difference between you and me, Supa, is that when I am not an expert, I freely admit it and that I could well be wrong. You, on the other hand, just spout unsubstantiated misassumed tripe over and over and attempt to pass it off as fact. Even when, as mentioned/or provided many times now, that there is vast evidence that completely nullifies such lies and exposes them for what they are: the relentless spew of a dogmatic individual who never knows when to quit but who prefers to wallows in random statements and mis placed omnipotence.

And you call me embarrassing.

[supafrey]

I understand the defensiveness that invariably arises when someone attacks your life's work - you may very well truly believe in the validity of what you do. You've legitimized basic observation skills and naturalistic guesstimation into a salary.. congratulations. Some people still believe in Freud. Tomato tomato.

Considering you didn't notice the blind structure, the stack sizes, some very basic intonation in Dawn's needling joke, or connect Hellmuth's behaviour to his career efforts, my faith in your psychological analysis is shaky to say the least. ALL of that information was plainly obvious from the video itself

And do you really know the earnings of EVERY online player in the world?

You do not need to know the earnings of everyone to know the earnings of the top 20 people. That information is available.

[xDiamond_CutteRx]

Blast, where did I put that popcorn?!!

[Sentinel]

Diamond, the popcorn probably fell behind the sofa - which is where Supa has been hiding for the bulk of this thread.

And yet again, he sidesteps EVERY PERTINENT POINT MADE because he knows he cannot counter a single one. Of course he will argue otherwise - but that's what leg humping, one trick, blinkered Duracell bunnies do. Contrast that to me, who replied to his every post and point.

I understand the defensiveness that invariably arises when someone attacks your life's work

And this is his latest attempt to obfuscate. Kinda pathetic, really.

No Supa, you just attack full stop. In nigh on every post. And as such you're as much use to this forum as a chocolate fireguard. And you mistake defensiveness with honest, clear as day corrections - especially when made by a fool who makes grandiose sweeping statements, makes things up and then attempts to pass them off as fact.

Every single one of your points was easily rebuffed (which is why they were) and caused a fair amount of bemusement as you hung yourself by not only attempting to enagage a professional on his subject matter but also with your ill thought out argument that had more holes in it than a block of Swiss cheese. I particularly enjoyed your over analysing of my non existent over analysing.

So no, you didn't recognise any defensiveness. You made the same error as someone who mistakes tears of laughter for tears of sorrow.

you may very well truly believe in the validity of what you do. You've legitimized basic observation skills and naturalistic guesstimation into a salary.

Lol. That Bull Shit train is still in motion, I see. Toot toot!

And once again, you make an arse of yourself. Guessing and passing it off as fact. Ooh, you're so all seeing and all knowing aren't you? You really should join a circus. You could even fill in for the clowns.

Yet again passing off crude, illogical and unfounded guesswork as fact - and you talk about laughable analysis?! And you think I've been forced into a defensive state?!

As for naturalistic guesstimation - you must be getting me mixed up with you. That's your bag. Along with pithy, bile and a stale odour. Once again, you have no idea what I do, what skills I have (though I recall you telling me that I had a BA) and yet you deem yourself knowledgeable enough to pass comment - which only further shows you up to be a hypocrite guilty of the very charges you assign so carelessly and recklessly.

You're gonna have to try better than that!
Effort: D-
Attainment: F


And now onto my favourite bit.......

Next Stop Pwnville. Toot toot!

Considering you didn't notice the blind structure, the stack sizes, some very basic intonation in Dawn's needling joke, or connect Hellmuth's behaviour to his career efforts, my faith in your psychological analysis is shaky to say the least. ALL of that information was plainly obvious from the video itself

First of all, any failure to receive the Supafrey Seal of Approval should be worn as a badge of honour. What possible merit is there to receive the thumbs up from a guy who literally serves no purpose whatsoever? And whose head permanently hibernates up his own arse?

Considering you didn't notice the blind structure, the stack sizes

I didn't notice the blind structure or the stack sizes because it was a 2 min clip - with no mention of the blind structure. Unlike you, I do not profess to be all seeing and all knowing.

some very basic intonation in Dawn's needling joke

You're daring to challenge a qualified professional in physical cues? After you already tried to pass yourself off as as a mind reader? How laughable.

It's bad enough that you want to tangle with someone who is your intellectual superior, with far more advanced linguistic prowess, but to do so in their specialist field? Don't say I didn't warn ya.

First of all, how do you know I missed ANY intonation in his speaking? That's right, you don't! You're making shit up again! That train you're driving....Toot toot!

You wanna go toe to toe, fine. But believe me, you ain't gonna find the answers on Wikipedia and be able to bluff your way through this. To start with, long before his needling, there were a multitude of cues which you have failed to address: Singularity of Perception, immediate Internal Dialogue Strafing, tightening of the Celiac Plexus, tightening of the facial musles, increased heart rate, shoulder lockdown, lip discolourisation, a 20 fold increase in conjugate lateral eye movement etc.

You wanna talk about about speech? Fine. Tell me then, at what point - and why - did Dwan shift (involuntarily) from speaking from the bottom of his chest to the top of his chest? Why did he alter his linguistic patterns? And which patterns did he switch between?

Or did you not spot any of this?

or connect Hellmuth's behaviour to his career efforts

No idea what the hell you're jabbering about here. Firstly, and as usual, you're assuming without evidence or justification that I failed to connect anything. Toot! Toot!

Secondly, I am not a poker pro remember, so there is no requirement for me to connect anything about Hellmuth, his behaviour or his career. You're just flapping wildly - again.
Toot! Toot!

my faith in your psychological analysis is shaky to say the least.

Kinda rich coming from a guy who doesn't even know ANYTHING about body language, how it's measured, what to look for, what it means and who missed practically every cue there was (hint: I didn't list them all).

ALL of that information was plainly obvious from the video itself

Actually, in the realm of Reality - where the rest of us live - the blinds/stacks were not obvious. Nor was anything about Hellmuth (not that it was relevant anyway). What WAS obvious was the disparity between Dwan's vocal and physical projections. What WAS obvious were the numerous physiological shifts, jarring at times. And what WAS obvious was the fact that even a non expert - a layman (the only thing you are qualified as) could tell that Dwan was extremely uncomfortable at the very least.

And if you wish to continue this thread Supa, be a man, have the courage of your convictions and reply - LINE BY LINE - to my previous post. Just as I did to yours. Attempt, if you can, to respond to every point made in a coherent and plausible manner. Answer ALL proof of your own hypocrisy and penchant for "making shit up" and resist the urge to hide behind more inveigling tactics and spurious guesswork.

End of the line.
Toot f8cking toot!

[supafrey]

wait you still don't see where the blinds are discernible? you must work for the american government.

[supafrey]

Kinda rich coming from a guy who doesn't even know ANYTHING about body language, how it's measured, what to look for, what it means and who missed practically every cue there was (hint: I didn't list them all).

no i just kind of play poker. weeeeee. you've figured it all out though!

I love people that sit at my table and mention their line of work.. it always lets me figure out how they overcompensate with their poker. Your masturbatory love of your own work is going to make you easy prey for people that know what's "actually important" in poker.

[Sentinel]

wait you still don't see where the blinds are discernible? you must work for the american government.


no i just kind of play poker. weeeeee. you've figured it all out though!

I love people that sit at my table and mention their line of work.. it always lets me figure out how they overcompensate with their poker. Your masturbatory love of your own work is going to make you easy prey for people that know what's "actually important" in poker.

Surprise surprise. Supafrey runs and hides again. At least he's consistent.

And as for masturbatory love of work - that's you all over. The hypocrite strikes again. You just make irrelevant and asinine posts over and over, in a vain attempt to wind people up and you love it.

And as for an overt love of my work - wrong again. You challenged me and I merely stepped up. And all you could do (typically) is back down and hide.

So typical. So Supa.

The only masturbatory love, Supa, is what you have for yourself and your own self importance. You know you're just an irritant on this forum, trying to needle and what not, yet you don't even have the integrity to admit it. You're a teeny dog who barks a lot but when put to the test by someone who isn't fazed by his needling tactics and who can cause him serious pwnage, knows his bite is severely lacking and runs and away.

Anytime you wanna answer my two previous posts, and return the straight up veracity I have awarded you, I'll be here, little doggy.


Until then

Woof woof!

[Kemics]

i'm really curious so i have to ask, what is your job?

[supafrey]

I'm reminded of Fox News, angrily screaming that nobody DARES ever come on their show because they're afraid of the hard hitting questions and investigative journalism, failing to realize that ignoring someone's inane ramblings says a lot more than trying to legitimately answer them.

From the content of your posts it is obvious that you know nothing about poker... that's fine, but you need to be aware that you're going to look like a giant idiot if you keep posting anything with authority. In a couple years you're going to reread your analysis, maybe actually understand some of the basic POKER that's behind these players' actions, and realize how ridiculous douchebags like you are. You're no different than the wealthy banker types that sit down in their bling and think their insane personal skills are gonna give them that "edge". After a couple months at the poker table you realize how full of crap most people's skills really are.

[Sentinel]

I'm reminded of Fox News, angrily screaming that nobody DARES ever come on their show because they're afraid of the hard hitting questions and investigative journalism, failing to realize that ignoring someone's inane ramblings says a lot more than trying to legitimately answer them.

Surprise surprise. Supafrey has AGAIN started another stream of garbage. Once AGAIN ignored the previous posts that answer every one of his ludicrous claims and illustrate his own hypocrisy, bull shit and inanities. And once again sidestepped the challenge to answer like for like - as I did with him - tearing him apart in the process.

Inane ramblings? You mean when I stated fact about what I actually said, to correct your wild accusations, illustrated how you make shit up and are guilty of your own charges? And when I stepped up and walked the walk when you couldn't even talk the talk?

Inane ramblings? You mean like when you assumed and stated as fact wild supposition and guesswork? And when you claimed to read minds, know what people think, know their education background and know who has earned what amounts of money? And when you somehow thought I should know about Hellmuth's career/behaviour when I am the noob trying to learn? And when you started post after post without ever replying to the one before? And when you just went off on one merry Bull Shit train jaunt after another?

Inane ramblings? You mean when you carried on your relentless leg humping, blinkered, f8cked up Duracell bunny act - despite clear evidence to the contrary and despite repeated calls for you to walk the walk, rather than just make a cack handed attempt to talk the talk and then run away onto the next illogical post as soon as it falls apart under even the most cursory of examinations?

Inane ramblings? You mean when I calmly and matter of factly proved you wrong at every step of the way - pointing to my own comments - and yours - to provide the evidence?

From the content of your posts it is obvious that you know nothing about poker.

Wow, how insightful. 4 out of my 6 posts made clear reference to the fact that I was new and here to learn. In fact, this entire thread was designed to get feedback so as to educate me further. And guess what? That's right, I mentioned that numerous times as well!

but you need to be aware that you're going to look like a giant idiot if you keep posting anything with authority.

Had you paid attention, instead of being the blinkered, leg humping Duracell bunny that you are, you would have noted that admitting in 4 of my 6 posts (now 5 out of 7) that I was new and perhaps in no place to question a far superior player like Dwan, is evidence that I did not post anything with authority about the hand.

See Supa, I use EVIDENCE and fact. You don't.
Biiiig difference!

And then I discussed Dwan's verbal and non verbal physical cues - a topic on which I AM an authority. Even so, I admitted in 5 of my 6 posts (now 6 of 7) that I was working with limited information and had to reply on generals rather than specifics.

See Supa, fact and evidence far outweights pathetic, and unsubstantiated claims. And that is why I pwn you so well. And why you cannot reply to any of them.

But, best of all is this brief summary of the FACTS:
1) I discussed the hand admitting I was a noob.
2) I discussed body language, as a professional, and still admitted I had limited info to work with.
3) You start stating as fact pure random guesswork, all the BS mind reading, and pure BS layman observations (misobservations, to be precise) about my area of expertise.

And you say have the nerve to condemn anyone for talking with authority?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Let's recap cos this is too good!

1) I NEVER spoke with authority about the hand.
2) I spoke with authority on my profession.
3) You relentlessly stated wild BS - and as fact.
4) You tried to take on a pro on their subject matter

And you dare to pull up someone about speaking with authority? When the only time they did - they were, indeed, an authority!!!

HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And when you, with your one trick pony rants, tried talking fact and with authority when you were exposed and found wanting ON EVERY LEVEL???!!!

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

In a couple years you're going to reread your analysis.........and realize how ridiculous douchebags like you are.

You're talking about yourself Supa. As mentioned many times - and PROVEN - many times, on the poker, I gave my opinions looking to learn from feedback and on body language, my area of expertise, I walked the walk and exposed you as impotent and empty.

Maybe in time, Supa, when your ego finally steps out of denial and sees the total pwnage you have experienced in this thread, you will see what a ridiculous fool you are, who was trampled underfoot with the same ease as an elephant to a caterpillar.

When you reread the thread and see that you were crushed through sheer fact alone, without reliance on insults, unlike some people in this thread, you will see just how ludicrous you are and that you have been rendered impotent.

And when you see how you were guilty of everything you accused me of: over analysing & speaking without authority, as well as the glorious act of mind reading, omnipotence and then trying to take on a pro in his specialist field, you will realise just what (to use your parlance) a ridiculous douchebag you are.

You're no different than the wealthy banker types that sit down in their bling and think their insane personal skills are gonna give them that "edge". After a couple months at the poker table you realize how full of crap most people's skills really are.

Lol! Fantastic Supa! You started with off tangent BS and you end with off tangent BS! Bravo! Bravo!

Once again, mon ami, you have NO idea about me, or my approach to the game, what-so-ever. In fact, judging by your increasingly irrational posts, you have no idea of reality, coherence, truth, integrity or how to debate/argue effectively.

And you're no different to the sad individuals, so unhappy with their own life, they spit bile and venom at everyone - being as much use as a one legged man in an arse kicking contest.

You're no different to all the other bullies, you like to give it out but go running for cover and attempting to launch distracting tactics when they come face to face with someone who they know will pummel them into the ground.

You're no different to the bull shitters who try to talk the talk but then come unstcuk under the tiniest scrutiny - let alone from a professional.

You're no different to the weak & foolish, displaying a complete lack of honesty and verisimilitude.


One of us has spoken with truth and honesty from the start. One of us has refused to hide. One of us has answered every point the other made. And one of us reduced each to rubble whilst reaffirming their own beyond doubt.

And it isn't you.


One of has attempted to spank and put down - but merely received an arse kicking of Herculean proportions, exposed as the sham they are and torn apart - literally piece by raggy piece.

And that is you.


Hope you're enjoy Pwnedville, little doggy.

[supafrey]

http://my.break.com/content/view.aspx?ContentID=501946

[Sentinel]

Relentless leg humping still in process.
I guess you never will learn, after all.

Though you have been reduced from making long posts full of pure gash, to smaller posts of pyre gash, to finally one line responses. It's ok, I understand. Hard to fight back when you're bested at every turn.

Anytime you wanna step into reality and address these posts, I'll be here.

Anytime you wanna continue your course of action, and get humiliated and stomped on every time, I'll be here.

I may not be a star in poker - but I'm light years ahead of you in intelligence, linguistic ability and debating/arguing prowess. I even enjoy tearing to shreds even more than you do. And I am certainly far more gifted.

To use a poker analogy, I'm on an infinitely higher level than you.

[supafrey]

Are you aware, btw, that Durrr has posted thousands and thousands of times online, including very personal blogs?

Just because you know nothing about how these people think doesn't mean everyone else doesn't either. Just because you don't know how much money people are making and losing online, doesn't mean everyone else doesn't.

The point is that your fallacious pleading to your own authority was debunked before you could even begin - not only are your abilities suspect (lol you STILL don't know what the blinds were), but every single one of the conclusions you came to about their respective antics was wrong. Obviously wrong, even. Keep believing in yourself though, doggy.

[supafrey]

I'm basically trying to tell you that we can't have a serious poker conversation until you learn the language.

Right now you're just a big kid that thinks he can skip ahead of the learning curve (learning the very technical language that poker debate involves) because of his profession. I was trying to warn you that this is no different than the gold-laden businessmen that sit down at my tables and play with their wangs instead of their heads.

[Jernej Zorec]

just fkn lol wp supa

as for the hand,
would u have same opinion on Toms play if Phil would fold QQ and show it ?