PLO8 decision

[HalfSugar]

I'm donking about learning to play tournament PLO8 at low stakes sit n gos and this hand came up while I was HU. Bearing in mind this is a $5 game, my opponent is a Gold Star so is no doubt a crap load better than me at PLO8 (and probably everything else).

Here is the hand:

PokerStars Game #20746477145: Tournament #110765197, $5.00+$0.50 Omaha Hi/Lo Pot Limit - Level X (400/800) - 2008/09/27 19:58:15 ET Table '110765197 1' 9-max

Seat #4 is the button
Seat 2: GenoTHP (5400 in chips)
Seat 4: smalltalkdan (8100 in chips)

smalltalkdan: posts small blind 400
GenoTHP: posts big blind 800

*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to GenoTHP [6d 5h Td 2h]
smalltalkdan: calls 400
GenoTHP: checks

*** FLOP *** [As 6h 3d]
GenoTHP: checks
smalltalkdan: checks

*** TURN *** [As 6h 3d] [Kd]
GenoTHP: checks
smalltalkdan: checks

*** RIVER *** [As 6h 3d Kd] [Jd]
GenoTHP: checks
smalltalkdan: bets 1600
GenoTHP: ?

[gumbie]

How about calling.

[HalfSugar]

No shit. I was more interested in whether I can get called by a worse hand if I raise or whether this is a donk play because I only have the 5th nuts and A2356 and any caller probably has better.
(Again, bearing in mind the micro stakes)

[odlozilik]

Why river check? Isn't it too tricky?

[MrDarling]

if you c/r here your turning your hand into a bluff.

If he's very decent and he thinks you are very decent he might call with a straight if he have the Ad but he should really fold anything but K high flush.

That said, your line is full of shit if you c/r here he might decide to call you with a set or two pairs.

Without history and without knowing how he plays I take the safe route and c/c.

[crack]

So you are only beaten by A hi and Q hi flushes. Surely he would have bet on the flop with an A?

I'd say realistically he can only have a Q hi flush that has you beat?

Would I check raise the river? No, I don't think so. Although you have shown no interest in this pot what so ever and he could be bluffing to pick it up, he can't call you with a bluff.

A check raise in this spot is supposed to be folded by the bluff/weak hand and called when you are in fact beaten yourself. Which means there basically isn't any merit to doing this unless you play the opponent a lot and you are mixing it up to appear more deceptive against them.

The big mistake I make is not judging an opponent properly. In a small game like this, it may well be right to check raise because your opponent will stack off with a low flush. Against a decent player that shouldn't happen.

[HalfSugar]

A check raise in this spot is supposed to be folded by the bluff/weak hand and called when you are in fact beaten yourself. Which means there basically isn't any merit to doing this unless you play the opponent a lot and you are mixing it up to appear more deceptive against them.

The big mistake I make is not judging an opponent properly. In a small game like this, it may well be right to check raise because your opponent will stack off with a low flush. Against a decent player that shouldn't happen.

The guy had recently written that PLO8 was his best game and that he played it a lot (which stunk a bit given the stakes and his gold star status) so I had countered that with "I'm new to this and a donk".

Ignoring that though, I did c/r all-in and was called by the straight which is just awful all round. After I thought about the hand, I realised that unless it played out as MrD said, I was only setting myself up to lose to a better hand. I guess I got lucky because he knew I was a donk and I think it taught me a thing or two. That said, I think I am a much better short-handed PLO8 player than I am at full ring and from 4-handed down I dominated the table easily.

Still, I'm not playing any stakes worth talking about until I have done a lot of reading and have a lot more experience. I feel like a poker novice again

[crack]

Yeah, it seems like a bad call from him and you made the right play. As I said, one problem I do have is not adjusting correctly to my opponents. I would never check raise the river. I may bet or check to induce a bluff, but never check raise because technically against a good player (Excluding the highest games with the best players in the world) it just isn't worth it imo.

[MrDarling]

the fact that our opponent made a bad call doesn't make this a correct play.

Did you c/r for value because you "know" this typical opponent will bet his NFD IP?
Did you c/r as bluff knowing he will fold his Qh flush?

or did you just think, duh I have a flush c/r AI?

The thing is if your opponent was good and knew you to be a donk he should vbet real small hoping to get value from two pairs or something but fold to any raise since PLO donk over value any flush.

[xDiamond_CutteRx]

if you c/r here your turning your hand into a bluff.

If he's very decent and he thinks you are very decent he might call with a straight if he have the Ad but he should really fold anything but K high flush.

That said, your line is full of shit if you c/r here he might decide to call you with a set or two pairs.

Without history and without knowing how he plays I take the safe route and c/c.

[HalfSugar]

Did you c/r for value because you "know" this typical opponent will bet his NFD IP?
Did you c/r as bluff knowing he will fold his Qh flush?

or did you just think, duh I have a flush c/r AI?

I've already explained that I know a raise here is wrong a lot of the time.

I do have the added safety blanket that I unless he has 24 or 25, I am taking the low so really being called by the nut flush is not the end of the world unless he has lucked out massively and happens to be holding the only two combinations of cards that can scoop. That doesn't justify the play but I'm not just donking with a high hand here.

Don't forget this is HU so the odds of him having AdXdYyZz where TWO of X, Y & Z are 2,4 or 2,5 are very slim.

[miaowmiaowchowface]

I prefer the call over the c/r here, because he never rly has the Nutflush, if u have the 2nut flush id do it

[crack]

Ooops. I didn't realise this was PLO8. The CR now isn't really that bad because it's going to be difficult for you to be beat both ways.

[MrDarling]

yeah, you never mentioned is was hi/lo until now. The title clearly says PLO and you can't expect us to look at the HH that closely.
This totally changes everything and now c/r is ok and actually a very good play since his calling range is much much wider.

[miaowmiaowchowface]

i never understood plo8 lol