Pocket Queens with two over cards on the flop

[jimmer]

I thought i played this totally wrong, but seeing his hand i wonder if i got out cheaply.

1. Should i of put in a probe bet on the turn? Say 3000-4000'ish?

2. Knowing what i know now i'm glad I played the way i did, but was it the correct play throughout.


PokerStars Game #12944621384: Tournament #65682782, $1.00+$0.20 Hold'em No Limit - Level IX (300/600) - 2007/10/30 - 19:26:42 (ET)
Table '65682782 5' 9-max Seat #5 is the button
Seat 1: tonirosa (5295 in chips)
Seat 2: flint61 (7680 in chips)
Seat 3: mtagg (12230 in chips)
Seat 4: jbdb3 (10727 in chips)
Seat 5: jerky00 (1758 in chips)
Seat 6: Yankee Don (2260 in chips)
Seat 7: LOGarcia (12786 in chips)
Seat 8: Dennisuitehv (3864 in chips)
Seat 9: udo09 (10900 in chips)
tonirosa: posts the ante 50
flint61: posts the ante 50
mtagg: posts the ante 50
jbdb3: posts the ante 50
jerky00: posts the ante 50
Yankee Don: posts the ante 50
LOGarcia: posts the ante 50
Dennisuitehv: posts the ante 50
udo09: posts the ante 50
Yankee Don: posts small blind 300
LOGarcia: posts big blind 600
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to jbdb3 [Qs Qd]
Dennisuitehv: folds
udo09: folds
tonirosa: calls 600
flint61: folds
mtagg: calls 600
jbdb3: raises 3000 to 3600
jerky00: folds
Yankee Don: folds
LOGarcia: folds
tonirosa: folds
mtagg: calls 3000
*** FLOP *** [4d Ks Ad]
mtagg: checks
jbdb3: checks
*** TURN *** [4d Ks Ad] [6d]
mtagg: checks
jbdb3: checks
*** RIVER *** [4d Ks Ad 6d] [6h]
mtagg: checks
jbdb3: checks
*** SHOW DOWN ***
mtagg: shows [As Js] (two pair, Aces and Sixes)
jbdb3: mucks hand
mtagg collected 9150 from pot

[UrAteUp]

1) I think he would have called a probe bet.

2) I really am not sure what you would call or what anyone would call a correct play. You had the worst hand but you got by without wrapping too many chips up in it. In my opinion...good job.

[Jernej Zorec]

i dont like this play
pf u raise 5x more and u commit 1/3 of your stack
i actually dont mind pushing preflop after a caller since pot is not small

but once u get to flop like that i think u have to push,
his range can be defined pretty well i think and u are way ahead of it

Your equity is 56.7% against 22+,ATs+,KQs,AJo+

and u can assume he doesnt flat call twice with AA, KK and AKs

you are 65% against QQ-22,AQs-ATs,KQs,AQo-AJo

[kingetje]

push the flop?


ridiculous...

[UrAteUp]

i dont like this play
pf u raise 5x more and u commit 1/3 of your stack
i actually dont mind pushing preflop after a caller since pot is not small

but once u get to flop like that i think u have to push,
his range can be defined pretty well i think and u are way ahead of it

Your equity is 56.7% against 22+,ATs+,KQs,AJo+

and u can assume he doesnt flat call twice with AA, KK and AKs

you are 65% against QQ-22,AQs-ATs,KQs,AQo-AJo

Jernej,I am not doubting what your saying here. I just want some better understanding of why push the flop when your behind. Though we do not know we are behind we can get an idea that we are because our 5xBB bet did get called. Yes we could push the flop. But don't you think villian with AJ would call? If so then we have two queens we could catch or runner runner (which is even more unlikely then one of the case queens). So why push?

[Jernej Zorec]

what i'm saying is that pot is too big on flop for us to fold the hand given his range
he will mostly flat call behind with PPs and mebbe some wierd sooted ace,
and even there i doubt he will have less than ATs unless hes a idiot in which case ur even more ahead

and i pretty much rule out KK AA since those two and speciall AK will most likely push after our big raise


now if u just call behind preflop situation is different, but
putting in 1/3 of your stack pf to fold on flop every time A or K comes is terrible

[UrAteUp]

Gotcha, I understand what your saying now. Glad you cleared it up for me...

I think I was being results oriented without knowing I was doing so when I answered.

[MrDarling]

can't fault your play here, though I think I take a stab at this turn.

Am very surprised villain didn't value bet the river here.

[jimmer]

Thanks for the replies guys.

However there seems to be a mixed response on the correct play.

Do I either:
A) raise all-in preflop?
B) raise the same amount preflop, check the flop and probe bet the turn?
C) B) raise the same amount preflop, then push all-in on the flop?
D) play the way I did?
E) both A+B or A+C or B+C is fine?
F) something else?

ty

[jimmer]

Am very surprised villain didn't value bet the river here.

Yeah me too. I only joined the table a few hands earlier, so I didn't have any info on him. He went on to raise 90% of hands preflop and built his stack to around 26K. He continued to play aggressive preflop until he got knocked out in 4th place.

[Jefecaminador]

The only reason to bet the flop is to protect against a bluff. And betting the turn is pretty terrible. You showed no strength after the flop, and the turn both paired the board and brought a flush. Unless he thinks you have aces, hes calling cause theres really nothing else you can have that beats him and bets like that.

The problem with your range calculation is that anything we beat, he is folding so theres no reason to bet. And the only hands he might dump are a pair of kings.

I think you played the hand fine, theres really not a lot you can do with queens when both the ace and king flop.

[xDiamond_CutteRx]

I don't have a problem with how this was played, but it's not the only way to play it I wouldn't have a problem with.