PartyPoker - Glossing over cheating?

[Devedander]

I have posted at another forum about a recent occurance during which I am almost certain there was cheating going on in a game at partypoker.

The post is here http://www.thepokerforum.com/ubb/Forum2/HTML/000357.html

I figure it would be easier to post a link than to retype the whole thing. If this is against forum rules for some reason I will be happy to transcribe it.

Anyhow, please read and let me know what you think, I feel this is a very poorly handled situation and I have come to wonder if even the investigations team at partypoker realizes the ramifcations of sharing your starting hand.

[TheMrLegendary]

Just another digusting story i have read about PP. I remember before the WPT kicked off, the site was pleasant and you could always find a game, the only real down side was the 24 live help was hard to come by. I enjoyed the site greatly, then towards the Final WPT event things changed dramtically. The 24/hr live help was restricted to real money players only. Games became more numerous but SO much harder to get into. I have a fast PC and a super fast cable modem, and when i saw a tourny open and wait for 10 players, i would click just as it opened, and get in and find it full already. Nothing but a pain in my rear, i moved right along to TruePoker.com. I played there with great success and a much better feel that PP ever was. Then TP decided that having constant server crashes was a valid idea, and I was forced out from a heavenly site for sure. I moved back to PP just out of already having an account, and it was a nightmare. I couldnt get a winning night to save my life. The cards were terrible for a week str8, and just the feel was sickening. I had a few questions about PP and asked their live help, the person was so slow to answer, stalled and was generally uneducated in what I was asking!!!

I wrote them an email expressing my difficulties and just outright disgust over what their site had become, and closed my real money account. I have played real money on UB.com Partypoker.com and Truepoker.com. I hvae played with fake money on Pokerstars, Paradise Poker, Pacific Poker, Poker Room.

I have evaluated each site for many criteria, such as # of players, tourny's per hour, variety in limits and poker types, # of tables, lag, wait time, live help, prizes/jackpots, points for playing raked hands used towards gifts, overall feel in the room, the atmosphere with players and several others.

Here are my conclusions:

If you are looking for a large amount of players, PartyPoker is best but good luck finding a good game, this site is all about quantity not quality, and isnt forgiving to someone who likes a friendly game and chat.

Tournaments, hands down it is Poker Stars, the number of tournys and how often they open is truly remarkable, plus they have the WCOOP, the WSOP of online poker in August.

Variety in poker types is a near tie between ParadisePoker and Ultimatebet.com, 5stud and Pinneapple are great games to learn.

As for prizes, jackpots, and points for playing in hands that can be used for gear, prizes and free-rolls, the best is by far Ultimatebet.com and Truepoker isnt bad either. If you jsut want to sit and play poker with little hastle and would love a little additional incentive to play, UB.com is best.

UB.com has recently been having moderate to severe server frezzing and crashing. TruePoker.com has crashes atleast once a day, but not for long. as for PartyPoker.com, the lag and server is terrible, again they aim for quantity not quality.

As for overall feel and friendly playing. TruePoker has a totally revolutionary idea behind a poker playing game engine, you HAVE to check it out to get the real feel. People are very friendly and for the most part the top players and the always on players all really know each other well, I have never seen a site where everyone knows everyone, its a great tight knit feel, even though is big. If you arent into the graphics of TP, then PokerStars is a good bet. It has a nice color scheme and just clean refreshing graphics, and the customizable player profile icon, is a GREAT idea, though not everyone uses this great feature(they really should). I think overall TP is the friendliest of sites, you get to find out the actual names of their hosts and helpers, rather than clicking a button and talking to some stranger, their help crew actually play poker when not on a shift.

So taking all things into consideration and giving everything a 1 to 10 rating, 10 being Legendary and 1 being the worst site ever. Ill rate the sites I have had the pleasure of using.

Truepoker.com easily deserves a 9 rating, a must see for your gaming.

PokerStars.com gets a great 8 . While the feel isnt as interesting and refreshing. I am a mainly tourny player and this site is a dream for those of you the same way. Though it has a lack of online help.

UltimateBet.com gets a solid 8. It doesnt have ready to access team member help. It does have a great range in stakes and has pinneapple/irish holdem. Try it out, if you arent familiar, you get 3 cards in the hole, but after the flop you must discard one and continue to play as if it was texas holdem poker. The prize packages and frequent player incentives are truly great.

ParadisePoker gets a 6. It has a solid feel and has a good variety in poker game options, it just didnt appeal to me, I am too spoiled on TP.com.

PokerRoom.com is the only one I have found that you dont have to download software. If you want just a neat game of poker, with little effort or if you cant download because you are scared of viruses, then this might be your site. Score 3

PacificPoker has a clean reputation among its players, but its varietys in games and stakes is really limited, it also doesnt have many players, and most arent that good from what I have heard. So check this out if you want to avoid the big name sites, though I cant see why anyone would do such a thing. Score 4

Finally I in this case save the worst for last. PartyPoker.com I give this site a well deserved 2. It isnt the worst site I could imagine, its just terrible overall. The only reason one might player here is the buddy list option or because it is so large. Other than that, there isnt a reason to play here other than MAYBE it only requires you be 18 unless your state requires you to be 21. That was a policy change effective Jan. 2003, so you do run into many players younger and arent as strong, but they run off at the mouth for little or no reason, its like playing poker in a HighSchool freshmen english class.

I hope that some of what I have said is helpful in finding a better card room or just avoiding PartyPoker.com. I do recommend everyone check out TruePoker.com or if you dont like that PokerStars or UltimateBet.com are your best alternatives.

May the aces follow anyone who was nice enough to read my babble.
Take Care all.

Drew*Mr. Legendary*

[Zito]

I was playin in a multitable tourney recently and witnessed this...

I was doing well in the tourney and had the nuts vs a guy that was betting hard. I made a bet that would of put him all in. He never responded and the hand auto played as if I never made my bet.
I did win, but he got to see the cards without calling me. The very next hand, he was back in.
He simply disconnected and returned. PP's system treats all disconnects this way. I was sure he disconnected on purpose since he was gone 3 seconds after my bet and back for the next hand. Other players stated the same.
I reported the incident to PP and they told me that I was making a serious and untrue accusation. I emailed them back asking them how they tell the difference between a player disconnecting their cable modem manually and them losing connection to their ISP innocently. I never got a response.

I suspect that they can't tell and this type of cheating could hurt their business. Any network guru's got a theory here?

[BrianGre]

.....I reported the incident to PP and they told me that I was making a serious and untrue accusation. I emailed them back asking them how they tell the difference between a player disconnecting their cable modem manually and them losing connection to their ISP innocently. I never got a response.

I suspect that they can't tell and this type of cheating could hurt their business. Any network guru's got a theory here?

i'm not making any observations or stating opinions about PP or their practices , but there is no way to determine if a user manually disconnects their cable vs. lost connection at the ISP.

[TheMrLegendary]

Close your account at PP and move to UltimateBet.com, that is what I did, and i am much happier! Come find me there under TheLegendary

[Devedander]

I used to play pokerroom but they had so many server crashes I never felt I honesty won or lost a tourney. I went to party because I tend to play late at night and at pokerroom it took up to half an hour to fill a tourney, at pp it's usually fater even at 3 am.

I tried truepoker and while I like the idea of having to look at cards, players talking etc, I found it hard on the eyes for some reason. I also didn't like the fact that you always sit at the end of the table, I know it doesn't make a difference in play but somehow getting different seats feels different for me. Also I couldn't get over the fact you sit at a table and often there are 3 or 4 of the same character there.

I will try UB but from what I saw I don't like their layout, if the game is solid I might stick with it but the front end is just nasty.

I will have to look into PS, I like the idea of icons.

I am still at PP for a now also though, oddly enough since I complained I have been on a winning streak (don't think it's related though) but I will definitely be trying other sites soon to see how I like them. One thing I really don't like about party is the 50 minimum on everything from deposits to account to account transfers and the lack of a chop option (what sites offer chops?)

As for detecting the true loss of a connection it's hard to do and I don't like PP manner of dealing with it either. I think if the server drops you or crashes, you should get at least the amount of the bet on the table, if it's in a tourney, at least refund the tourney entry. If it happens often, you should leave the site, and if it's your ISP or computer, it's your own fault, you shoudln't get any special treatment (like the all in) because of it).

As far as being able to tell if someone disconnected or not on purpose there are some sure telltale signs, for instance if you manually click disconnect on a connect, the compturs involved will effectively say goodbye to each other and leave a clean connection. If you force a disconnect (pull the plug) it's dirty and the ISPs computer will spend time looking for you thinking you just got lost. This wastes their computer time and network time, so they prefer you clean disconnect. But there is not penalty as far as I can tell for this from an ISP.

Bear in mind that almost every kind of connection takes a few seconds to restart. Even a cable modem will take up to 30 seconds to reset itself after being shut off. So if someone is out, then right back in it's likely they didn't have time to pull the plug and reset, also if you do that and come back too fast you wil just be right back in the hand again and have to bet.

PP does state that it's software has advanced features to detect abuse of the all in, and if he does it often I think it might put up a flag in the system and he might get in trouble. But I don't know how much faith I put in their detection software.

It does sound fishy and I am not sure I like how PP handles disconnects, but it's just one more way to work the online system.