Omaha hi/lo - is this a correct play?

[Ewi]

Ok, I was really surprised by a play that resulted in me getting knocked out of a 9 seat STT on Doyle's Room.

Table Name Hand ID Game Stakes
$1 - PL - 9 Seats 7153806-13 Omaha Hi/Lo Pot Limit 50/100
Hand Start.
Seat 1 : tewssales has $1,580
Seat 2 : AcKcQcJcTc has $3,660
Seat 3 : Ewi has $2,380
Seat 7 : dan147 has $4,665
Seat 8 : sassafrass8 has $2,120
Seat 9 : viscous has $3,595
dan147 is the dealer.
sassafrass8 posted small blind.
viscous posted big blind.
Game [13] started with 6 players.
Dealing Hole Cards.
Seat 3 : Ewi has Qh 2h 8c Jc
tewssales called 100
AcKcQcJcTc has 10 seconds to respond.
Stakes: 50/100 Current level: 3 Next level in: 5 min.
AcKcQcJcTc called 100
Ewi called 100
dan147 called 100
sassafrass8 folded.
viscous checked.
Dealing flop.
Board cards [3c 8d Jh]
viscous checked.
tewssales checked.
AcKcQcJcTc checked.
Ewi bet 550
dan147 folded.
viscous folded.
tewssales folded.
AcKcQcJcTc called 550
Dealing turn.
Board cards [3c 8d Jh Kd]
AcKcQcJcTc checked.
Ewi bet 1,650
Stakes: 50/100 Current level: 3 Next level in: 4 min.
AcKcQcJcTc called 1,650
Dealing river.
Board cards [3c 8d Jh Kd Th]
Ewi : just bet
AcKcQcJcTc has 10 seconds to respond.
Ewi : i'm all in anyway
AcKcQcJcTc checked.
Ewi bet 80 and is All-in
AcKcQcJcTc called 80
Seat 3 : Ewi has Qh 2h 8c Jc
Seat 3 : Ewi has Qh 2h 8c Jc
Ewi has high hand : Two Pair: Jacks and 8s
Seat 2 : AcKcQcJcTc has Ad Kc 2s Ts
AcKcQcJcTc has high hand : Two Pair: Kings and 10s
AcKcQcJcTc wins 5,110 with high hand : Two Pair: Kings and 10s

Calling to a low draw? Is that a correct play? I can't understand it myself, as you're risking a large chuck of your stack to effectively pick up half the pot, which would have only have been about 250 chips profit.

What surprised me even more is that I've played with this guy plenty of times before, I always sit on his left because he's tight, and I know if he makes a play at the pot I should get out of there unless I've got something good. I also assume that from watching me play he would have picked up on the fact that I never push without at least top two pair.

When he called I figured that he was on a draw, with 9 10(he'd have pushed with trips or two pair), so the king probably hadn't helped him. As he was tight I thought he'd lay down to another pot bet, but obviously not. His not betting on the river was annoying too, but there you go.

I think he made a bad play and got lucky. I am a beginner at hi/lo though, and I'm trying to learn, so if that's not the case please explain why. Any tips on my play appreciated too.

[Skribbles]

I'd say that your hand is a none starter.

QhJc8c2h


1) 82 - Bad low to be drawing to.

2) Sure you are double suited, but even if you hit your flush you can easily be beaten. Never draw when it isn't to a very strong hand.

3) You hand combos. QJo-Q8o-Q2s-J8s-J2o-82o. None of those hands look good.


You hit the flop "decently" but rarely will top 2 hold up in Omaha. When the K hits the turn, GET OUT.

[Ewi]

Yeah, I agree I shouldn't really have played that hand. I was pretty much looking to flop a flush draw and get out if I didn't. When the two pair hit it was checked around to me and I figured a pot bet would take it down.

What I'm curious about is whether or not my opponent was making a good call. From what I could tell from their cards is that they called just to catch a low card and win half the pot. Is that something I should be doing? I just can't understand how they can justify calling there.

[xDiamond_CutteRx]

His call may not have been the best, but he did have the nut low draw and top pair on a fairly inoccuous board. Your hand selection got you into this problem... your hand is atrocious in Omaha8. You need good high hands with LOW potential. Yours had marginal high value and no low value. That's a losing play right from the starting gate.

[Skribbles]

Yeah, I agree I shouldn't really have played that hand. I was pretty much looking to flop a flush draw and get out if I didn't.

Why draw to a hand that can easily be beaten? Playing these flush draws
-EV. More often than not there will be a higher flush out there.

[Ewi]

Last night I played a $1 speed MTT(3 minute levels) and ended up coming second. I was playing hands like A2KQ, or A23K, as well as other hands with good straight making possibilities and two pair double suited(Pushing my short stack with T T 8 8 more than tripled me up when I sucked out against J J 9 9 by catching an 8 on the turn). Are there any other types of hands that are profitable, and are any of the ones I mentioned not worth playing?

Thanks for the responses so far guys.

[Dat_Dude]

Last night I played a $1 speed MTT(3 minute levels) and ended up coming second. I was playing hands like A2KQ, or A23K, as well as other hands with good straight making possibilities and two pair double suited(Pushing my short stack with T T 8 8 more than tripled me up when I sucked out against J J 9 9 by catching an 8 on the turn). Are there any other types of hands that are profitable, and are any of the ones I mentioned not worth playing?

Thanks for the responses so far guys.

A starting hand on O8 should contain at least an Ace and another very low card probably at least 80% of the time. The hand you described with the TT88 double suited is actually also a terrible Hi/Low hand. If there is a low on the board, you are ONLY playing for 1/2 the pot since you don't have a possible low. If you are playing for the high, your hand is pretty terrible because you are ONLY looking for 4 cards (2 T's, 2 8's). Sure, they have straight and flush possibilities, but as Skribs described, these can and will get you into trouble since you will likely lose to a higher flush or a higher straight.

Just my $.02

[Skribbles]

Depending on how short stacked you were, pushing with T's and 8's isn't horrible. But there are plenty of better hands to push with. With TT88 you want to see a cheap flop and hope to hit a set with a board that isn't flush/straight/low draw heavy.

With a high low tourny though you'd like to have A2xx when you push. A solid low draw then hope for the best on the high.

[Ewi]

When I pushed I had around 1200 in chips and the blinds were 150/300, with one limper(the guy I sucked out on). Two callers, the blinds folded, the other guy had something like AKJT. Got my chips up to over 4k, and could afford to wait for decent hands. I also stole a lot of pots on the button, or in late position, as the blinds were getting very big and if nobody was betting a min bet was enough to take it down.

I'm going to play a 9 seat STT and test out what you guys have told me. I'll let you know how I get on.

[Ewi]

Ah well, I went out 6th. I didn't really put myself in a good position as for the first 13 hands I was playing a $1 speed tourny too, in which I placed 4th, so until I was knocked out of that game I was pretty much just folding my cards as I got them unless I had something worth playing.

When I finally got around to playing I was down to about 1500 chips from 2000 and not doing very well at all really. This is how my final hand went down.

Table Name Hand ID Game Stakes
$0.50 - PL - 9 Seats 7172121-19 Omaha Hi/Lo Pot Limit 50/100
[Feb 13 07:35:50] : Hand Start.
[Feb 13 07:35:50] : Seat 1 : Westexdude has $2,950
[Feb 13 07:35:50] : Seat 2 : beyonder007 has $2,680
[Feb 13 07:35:50] : Seat 3 : bdubsurfer3 has $4,070
[Feb 13 07:35:50] : Seat 4 : JBDASHARK has $4,640
[Feb 13 07:35:50] : Seat 5 : Ewi has $1,370
[Feb 13 07:35:50] : Seat 6 : Beach03 has $2,290
[Feb 13 07:35:50] : Ewi is the dealer.
[Feb 13 07:35:50] : Beach03 posted small blind.
[Feb 13 07:35:50] : Westexdude posted big blind.
[Feb 13 07:35:50] : Game [19] started with 6 players.
[Feb 13 07:35:50] : Dealing Hole Cards.
[Feb 13 07:35:50] : Seat 5 : Ewi has Ad Kd 2s 3h
[Feb 13 07:35:54] : beyonder007 folded.
[Feb 13 07:35:56] : bdubsurfer3 folded.
[Feb 13 07:35:59] : JBDASHARK called 100 and raised 250
[Feb 13 07:36:00] : Stakes: 50/100 Current level: 3 Next level in: 2 min.
[Feb 13 07:36:02] : Ewi called 350
[Feb 13 07:36:06] : Beach03 called 300
[Feb 13 07:36:06] : Westexdude folded.
[Feb 13 07:36:07] : Dealing flop.
[Feb 13 07:36:07] : Board cards [Ac 7h Td]
[Feb 13 07:36:13] : Beach03 bet 200
[Feb 13 07:36:15] : JBDASHARK called 200
[Feb 13 07:36:17] : Ewi called 200
[Feb 13 07:36:18] : Dealing turn.
[Feb 13 07:36:18] : Board cards [Ac 7h Td Kc]
[Feb 13 07:36:19] : Stakes: 50/100 Current level: 3 Next level in: 1 min.
[Feb 13 07:36:23] : Beach03 bet 400
[Feb 13 07:36:27] : JBDASHARK called 400 and raised 2,550
[Feb 13 07:36:29] : Ewi called 820 and is All-in
[Feb 13 07:36:37] : Beach03 folded.
[Feb 13 07:36:38] : Showdown!
[Feb 13 07:36:38] : Seat 5 : Ewi has Ad Kd 2s 3h
[Feb 13 07:36:38] : Stakes: 50/100 Current level: 3 Next level in: 1 min.
[Feb 13 07:36:40] : Seat 4 : JBDASHARK has 7d 7s 3d 8h
[Feb 13 07:36:40] : Seat 5 : Ewi has Ad Kd 2s 3h
[Feb 13 07:36:44] : Seat 4 : JBDASHARK has 7d 7s 3d 8h
[Feb 13 07:36:44] : JBDASHARK has high hand : 3 of a Kind: 7s
[Feb 13 07:36:44] : Seat 5 : Ewi has Ad Kd 2s 3h
[Feb 13 07:36:44] : Ewi has Two Pair: Aces and Kings
[Feb 13 07:36:44] : JBDASHARK wins 3,790 with high hand : 3 of a Kind: 7s
[Feb 13 07:36:54] : Hand is over.
(NB)For some reason the river hasn't been recorded for this hand, which is very weird. It was a 9 of clubs.


Did I do anything wrong here? This was probably the best looking hand that I had seen all game, and the guy who raised had been raising a lot with what I would consider are bad hands, so I didn't really think I had that much to worry about from him.

I thought about pushing on the flop, as I had top pair with top kicker and a draw to the nut low, but I decided to give them a chance to bet into me, as up until now I had pretty much folded every hand and pushing could've easily scared them away. The king on the turn improved my hand, and while I was wary of the straight when the original raiser pushed I felt that I had plenty of outs to win at least half the pot, or even outright, and could very well be ahead against him. Turned out I wasn't ahead and none of my outs came

Any advice or criticisms?

[Dat_Dude]

Did I do anything wrong here?

On this hand, I would have played it the exact same way that you did. I am not a huge advocate of huge preflop raising, but this hand is one of the few that warrants it. Since it was raised ahead of you, however, I think a call here and a push on the flop is a good move.

You HAD to push here. You had top two pair and the nut low draw, you just didn't get the card you needed.

[BeerWench13]

I need some advice.
I was playing Omaha8 last night (God, I hate that game!).
$1/2 PL Omaha 8
9 players at the table. Hero on the button. All limp but 2.
Hero: A 2 4 K
Not a bad starting hand.
Flop:
J 5 10
Check, check, check, check, check, Villain A bets $10, Hero calls, Villain B calls (both are big stacks), all others fold.
Turn:
Q
Sweet! The nuts, at least for the moment. No possible low so no chance of a split.
Villain B checks, Villain A bets $15, Hero reraises to $45 (pot $59), Villain B folds, Villain A calls.
River:
5
Villain A bets $75 putting Hero all-in.
Hero????

[Soup_dog]

Oh that sucks. I know his bet put you all-in, but how much was that for you? $75? So we are talking about $75 to win ~$200. I think I would have to call.

[xDiamond_CutteRx]

PLO8 is such a crappy game, because it may as well be PLO high where people occasionally chase another draw and hit it.

I think you probably need to call the river in case he just made trips or slow played another flush. I don't like your chances in this pot at all though.

To tell you the truth, I probably would raise for value before the flop and then raise the villain on the flop. Your equity is too big to play this passively, and you need to build a pot for your draw. Then on the turn, you might have been able to shut him out with a pot-size bet.

[BeerWench13]

To tell you the truth, I probably would raise for value before the flop and then raise the villain on the flop.

I didn't really want to make the post 4 pages long, so I didn't go into detail about the players at the table. Basically, they're all extreme gamblers. You're guaranteed to have at least 2-5 people see the river no matter what the bet. Their goal is to suck out on each other as much as possible with the absolute worst hand imaginable. They'll call your $10-20 preflop raise with any cards just to try to suck out. They're not really there to play poker as to show up one another. How I get suckered into playing with these guys I'll never know.

And, for the record, not only do I extremely dislike Omaha, but I'm not very good at it and thus not very confident. I fold most of the time because I don't like getting into a crap shoot with these guys in a game I'm not that strong in. I believe a few on here would call that wussitis. And, they'd be right. I only go to play NLHE and fold and go have a smoke during Omaha most of the time. It just so happened in this hand that I was the dealer.

I'll post results once I've gotten a few more opinions on how I should've played this hand.

Thanks for the advice though. I'm not that familiar with the game, so I'm willing to take any and all advice that will help me improve so I can cash in on these guys.