Please tell me this was the right call!!!!!!

[cheers7557]

Just got done playing a 16 person tournament at a friends house. I have played with most everybody that was playing, and those who I had never played with were newbies. That being said, here is my question about calling an all in. There are 8 people after the table. Before the flop, there are 4 people still left. I am in late position and I limp in with my pocket 10s. I only limped in because the remaining people in the hand are VERY tight, and I wanted to get some value out of my hand. Blinds are only 10, 15. The flop comes 10, 7, 4 rainbow. I now have my set, and after it is checked to me, I bet 100. One person folds, two call, and now we have three way action. The turn is a 6. Both players check to me and I bet 200. Both players still in are very tight, and one of them only plays premium hands. The REALLY tight player goes all in. Now, it is pretty early in the game, and I figure he has put me on a pair on the board and he is trying to bully me. He tries to do this if he has chips in the pot. The thing is, he knows I usually bet strong when I have really good cards. The player to my left folds. I look at all the options on the board. There are no possible hands to made with two hole cards and the cards on the board that could beat me. He would need to hold connecting cards, and then be drawing on fifth street to beat my set. I call with my set of 10s, and he shows a 7/8 offsuit. He needs to draw either a 5 or a 9 to beat me. Remember, this is an 8 person table. The river is a 5 and he takes me down. He ended up having about 15 in chips more than I did. Did I just get outdrawn, or did I majorly overlook something here. This is a player who only plays premium hands, he was not on a blind, and I was raising every round. Please tell me I got outdrawn, and not outplayed. My pride is on the line here. I was the first person out, and everyone there knows that I am one of the best players in our little "circle." I know I am 1000 times better at the game as he is, he is just lucky is situations like this, and then it makes him think he is that good.

[Fat Tony]

well, there are several ways you can look at this. personally, i don't think that i would have called the all-in for two reasons.....the first one is that there was a straight possibility when the guy went all-in. these always seem to hit when you call an all-in and your opponent is on a straight draw, especially on those crappy low card flops. the second and main reason i would not have called the all-in is you say the guy plays super tight so i'm not sure why you would think he was trying to bully you. i don't think this is a situation where someone can absolutely say you played wrong, rather than perhaps a bit too agressively. and forget about your pride, it's waaay too expensive to worry about pride at the table.

[cheers7557]

Here is a little more of my thinking. Knowing that this player is REALLY tight, I put him on having a high pocket pair, or having made a set with his hole cards. With this mentallity, I know I had him beat. I realize there was a weak possibility of having a straight, but I didn't think he would call my bets holding an 8,5. Plus since he never plays anything but high value hands, there is no way I could put him on a 7,9 or any kind of hand that would be drawing a straight. If you knew this kid, and played with him as many times as I have, you would understand the situation that much more. He is famous for only playing high pocket pairs or AK, AQ, or AJ.

[nicthestick]

It looks to me like there was a straight possibility out there after 4th street. The proper play, IMHO, was to push in after the flop. whae you flop top set in an unraised pot, you want to make sure that someone with small connectors does not get to catch up for free. According to Doyle, You dont want to go broke in a nothing pot. Push in after the flop here. If he calls... perfect! you have him dominated, it is unfortunate that he catches the runner, runner to make the str8. If he folds, well, you are still in the tourney.

[BeerWench13]

The proper play, IMHO, was to push in after the flop. whae you flop top set in an unraised pot, you want to make sure that someone with small connectors does not get to catch up for free.

I have to agree with this statement. If you had gone all-in after the flop, more than likely everyone would have folded and you'd have walked away with what was already in the pot. It's better to win small than lose big.

If you knew this kid, and played with him as many times as I have, you would understand the situation that much more. He is famous for only playing high pocket pairs or AK, AQ, or AJ.

He sounds like a pretty good player. Obviously, on this hand, he changed his style a bit to throw you off of his game. I'd say more than likely he was going all-in to push you out of the pot in case he didn't catch his card. Not a bad play on his part. I'd have probably done the same.

I don't think that you necessarily made a bad call on this hand, you just misread your opponent.

[alphakenny1]

quite personally i still would have raised preflop because i want to know how strong those cards are. i especially would have even raised since that these players who limped in are tight. you have the position and the cards on them. by not raising preflop, you have no idea what they have. if you raised preflop then you are telling ur opponent you got something. if he/they called ur preflop raise you can be pretty sure they have big cards. im sure if you raised it preflop, he would have thrown away his 7,8 easy. and if he calls with that, then thats actually good for you since ur a huge favorite. thats the only thing i felt that was wrong with ur play. remember tight players usually dont limp in if they have a real hand. thats what i've learned from experience. if they limp in usually they have some type of drawing hand such as suited connectors or small pairs.

[ballbp]

On the contrary alphakenny. I love to limp after I've established myself as a tight player just to trap. I don't live by it but I like to think what's going through their heads when I check-raise the turn after my hand was made on the flop. You'll see guys call to the end just because they swear you're either bluffing or that they have that turn card beat. As I said, you don't always get what you could out of the pot but switching gears is the name of the game, right?

[als24]

While winning a small pot is better than losing a big one is true, you do have to maximize profit in a tourney. Odds are with a low flop like that, if you go all in, more than 95+% of the time, everyone will fold, and thats not maximizing your profits. There are only so many top tier hands you will get in a tourney and if you win a pot of 45 on it, you won't win. Probably could have gone with a bigger bet after the flop but I wouldn't say you played it wrong. In most cases you have everyone nailed to the wall.

[alphakenny1]

yes you are right ballbp but remember there isn't a right way to play any kind of hand. but the reason why i say raise is because he describes the remaining players as "VERY tight" which translates to me that they are rocks. so if you raise most likely they will throw away their 7,8o but if they call you can easily put them on two face cards or some kind of pair. knowing information about the opponents hands is key and gives you the edge plus he has position on them. rocks will not call a raise when they are holding 7,8o. a tight agressive player will, maybe, but a rock will not period. but yes like you said if the player A is smart they will notice player B raising player A whenever player A limps in and thats when player A will limp in with monster hands and screw player B if you get what im saying. but to me in this case, a raise is in order.

[Absolution]

Tight or not, if you let 4 people limp in, you only have yourself to blame. I don't know how you expect to get extra value out of a hand when you just made yourself the underdog by limping, especially late. As to the way it went down, I think your play would have been fine if you had of raised preflop like I said. Against tight players it's generally correct to slowplay a set on a nonescarey board like that, but after you let them limp in, not so much. Like nick said, you should have really put him to the test on the flop (why not, you were willing to call all-in on the next street anyway).

[Jonniedough]

I didnt read everyones posts. But it was the right move, considering what you thought!!

Heres why I say that.

Im on the button w/ 55 flop 10c 5d 2c , there are 3 people to act before me, SB goes all in (decent player), BB calls (he plays his gut instinct) come to me I went all in to put the BB for what he had, calling both put me at about 1/3 of my chips. Well SB had two pair 10s and 2s, BB had pp 99, both still on draws compared to my hand, but knocking both out makes me chip leader, one of them winning puts me 2nd to last in chips.

is it a good move, I think it its, will I make the move again in the same situation, better believe it!!

I did end up winning the hand, call it luck I didnt get out drawn, both have always hit me on the river, I was happier then a pig in shit knocking them out, only cause of all the rivers that they made me endure.

[hookedonholdem]

I think you played the hand fine. I probably would have made a small preflop raise on the button, if for no other reason than pot value and position. Plus if an overcard, like a J or Q, were to come on the flop and everyone checked to you, you could semi-bluff them out of the pot representing top pair or an overpair. It's usually better to have them on their heels. That being said, you played the hand right. Fact of the matter is you got outdrawn, not at all outplayed. At the time he went all in, he had middle pair and a str8 draw against trips. That leaves him 8 outs in the deck...4 9's and 4 5's. He probably thought an 8 or 7 would be good enough to win as well, thus miscalculating his outs at 14 (which is still only 29% chance of hitting). I'll take those odds all day any day. Yeah, sometimes you'll get outdrawn as you did here, but the name of the game is getting your chips in when you have the best hand, which you did at the turn. The only way I would have layed down my hand is if I thought he already had the str8. Even then, you have 10 outs to pair the board and make a full-house or quads thus taking down the hand anyway. In a situation where you he can take you out of the game, unless it's late and you're desperate, lay down your hand if you think he has already made a str8. IMO you made the correct play and he got lucky. From the pride perspective, he can only say one thing "wow, thank god i filled the str8 cuz you had me dead."