ever folded A's

[groton]

yah post flop iv layed aces down way to many times to count.

[xDiamond_CutteRx]

All the time. I have two red Aces and the flop comes 7 8 9 in a 4-way pot I'm liable to fold to any serious action on the flop.

Or often, there's no way my opponent could fail to have at least trips on a paired board.

Most of the time it's correct to fold TPTK it would also be correct to fold an overpair.

[aaronw]

I agree. An overpair falls in the same category as TP on the hand ranking chart. They are both still one pair hands. I find that a lot of players stay in hands too long in fear of getting bluffed out of the hand. If someone bluffs you, who cares? Don't try to make heroic calls all the time. You will find better places to get your money in the pot.

[tame_deuces]

OPs are def better than TPs, simply since they tend to beat more hands an opponent could be holding (like TP or a worse OP).

And yeah, ofcourse they should be folded on many ocassions.

But...often they seem to be severely misplayed as people tend to treat them as raise/fold type of hands after the flop, when on many occassions they should become call/fold type of hands after the flop (it's easy thinking, imagine why you in a given situation would rather call yourself all-in than raise yourself all-in with a pair of aces after the flop).

A good example is in Supa's recent two pair step-by-step thread, where I think it was commented that Supa's opponent got married to his overpair, when in reality he played it very, very well...and probably the only way he should have played it...he may have played it that way because he was stupid, but that's another discussion entirely.

[exit music]

Since purchasing poker tracker, I have been dealt aces 19 times. Not ONCE have I had to fold them after the flop in a ring game, and only once have I lost with them:

POKERSTARS GAME #7745034728: HOLD'EM NO LIMIT ($0.02/$0.05) - 2007/01/03 - 12:13:02 (ET)
Table 'Libera' 6-max Seat #1 is the button
Seat 1: Masera ($10.44 in chips)
Seat 2: soft bel ($6.67 in chips)
Seat 3: astrodg ($9.21 in chips)
Seat 4: luckyswiss ($1.85 in chips)
Seat 5: Mrbowknows ($5.11 in chips)
Seat 6: mla-titan ($10.58 in chips)
soft bel: posts small blind $0.02
astrodg: posts big blind $0.05
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to astrodg [Ah Ac]
luckyswiss: raises $0.05 to $0.10
Mrbowknows: folds
mla-titan: calls $0.10
Masera: folds
soft bel: folds
astrodg: raises $0.25 to $0.35
luckyswiss: calls $0.25
mla-titan: calls $0.25
*** FLOP *** [5s Qs Th]
astrodg: checks
luckyswiss: checks
mla-titan: bets $2.50
astrodg: calls $2.50
luckyswiss: folds
*** TURN *** [5s Qs Th] [Td]
astrodg: checks
mla-titan: bets $7.73 and is all-in
astrodg: calls $6.36 and is all-in
*** RIVER *** [5s Qs Th Td] [6s]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
astrodg: shows [Ah Ac] (two pair, Aces and Tens)
mla-titan: shows [Qd Qh] (a full house, Queens full of Tens)
mla-titan collected $17.89 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $18.79 | Rake $0.90
Board [5s Qs Th Td 6s]
Seat 1: Masera (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: soft bel (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 3: astrodg (big blind) showed [Ah Ac] and lost with two pair, Aces and Tens
Seat 4: luckyswiss folded on the Flop
Seat 5: Mrbowknows folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: mla-titan showed [Qd Qh] and won ($17.89) with a full house, Queens full of Tens


YUP I didn't play the hand well at all, I attempted to slowplay after the flop with every intention of getting all my money in. VERY fortunately, I was only playing NL10 and lost a measly $10 on it.

[Phil14312]

prepare to lose more than 5% of the time with aces, just saying.

[aaronw]

prepare to lose more than 5% of the time with aces, just saying.

I think it depends on how you play them. If you play them fast you will generally win a few small pots. The key to NOT getting aces cracked all the time is to NOT slowplay. If you raise (or reraise PF) and bet the flop you will usually have a good chance of taking the pot down there. Granted you usually won't win large pots, but you won't lose a lot of pots either. I am winning 93% of the time with my aces.

[Ensano]

108 times; win% is 87.04; BB/hand 5.08.. I see dollar signs when I see aces

[Buffarino]

prepare to lose more than 5% of the time with aces, just saying.

I think it depends on how you play them. If you play them fast you will generally win a few small pots. The key to NOT getting aces cracked all the time is to NOT slowplay. If you raise (or reraise PF) and bet the flop you will usually have a good chance of taking the pot down there. Granted you usually won't win large pots, but you won't lose a lot of pots either. I am winning 93% of the time with my aces.

So you're losing 7% of the time with them. Phil said to expect to lose more than 5% of the time. I'm missing the disconnect, apparently.

[aaronw]

prepare to lose more than 5% of the time with aces, just saying.

I think it depends on how you play them. If you play them fast you will generally win a few small pots. The key to NOT getting aces cracked all the time is to NOT slowplay. If you raise (or reraise PF) and bet the flop you will usually have a good chance of taking the pot down there. Granted you usually won't win large pots, but you won't lose a lot of pots either. I am winning 93% of the time with my aces.

So you're losing 7% of the time with them. Phil said to expect to lose more than 5% of the time. I'm missing the disconnect, apparently.

I'm just saying that if you play them fast you are going to win with them more than if you slowplay them.

[MrDarling]

Guys, this is not meant to be another thread for cracked A's. I'm really looking for examples where folding A's post flop, HU is correct and easy.

Problem his, when you raise preflop and does get it to HU, usually on any given flop there is only a couple of hands that can actually beat you.
Like in the above example, lets say aaronw did play it correct and bet the flop. What is it correct way to play them in this situation if villain
1. reraise on flop bet
2. reraise a c/r
3. flat call a flop bet?

Villain could think he has a monster with AQ, KQ, AHs, AKs etc..

In this example A's are only really behind a set or 2 pair. Sure its possible but all the other above hands are also possible.

So my reason for this thread / question is : when do we need to give villain credit for the one or 2 hands that actually beat us.

Especially in low levels where people will push / call with TPWK, 2PTK , weak draws etc...

[exit music]

I'm just saying that if you play them fast you are going to win with them more than if you slowplay them.

I love to play aces to win a big pot, especially early in tournament poker. You might win more often fastplaying, but you can definitely win bigger pots - not if you completely shut down betting - but not necessarily betting every street. Even if I raise preflop I will usually either check the flop or turn and hopefully read my opponent well enough to know exactly when I'm beat. I will jump on the opportunity if I can slowplay aces preflop in a tournament. Not so much in a ring game.

[xDiamond_CutteRx]

Guys, this is not meant to be another thread for cracked A's. I'm really looking for examples where folding A's post flop, HU is correct and easy.

Ok, I'll give you three examples:

1. You're playing against an uncreative, straight-forward (but smart) TAG player. You raise UTG with AA, and he reraises from second position. A truly tight, straightforward player will probably not reraise here with AK, concerned about the other hands out there. Everyone else folds, and you just call, planning to check-raise the flop.

The flop comes K-Q-3. You check, he bets half the pot, you raise 3x his raise, and he comes over the top. At this point, it should be pretty obvious he has KK or QQ in the hole and you should fold.

2. A non-tricky player limps in late position and you raise out of the BB to 4x the BB with Aces. He calls and you're heads-up. The flop comes J-J-4. You bet the flop and he just calls. The turn is a T, you make a large bet and he pushes all-in. Often times, you're up against three Jacks or a full house here (JT is a common hand for an opponent to have here). Folding is not necessarily the easiest thing to do, but often it will be correct, as a board with paired high cards can be dangerous.

3. A player limps in in MP, and you raise 4x the BB with two red Aces on the button. He calls and you're heads up. The flop comes 7 8 9 . He checks the flop, you make a 3/4-pot continuation bet, and he makes a sizable raise. Here, you should often fold just because you will have no idea how to play the turn, and you may be drawing nearly dead (and against other hands, you may be no better than even money).


Obviously, folding Aces is not ALWAYS correct in these situations when you're heads-up, but these are the types of circumstances you should at least sometimes fold. Most of the time I've folded Aces it's been in circumstances like these.

[Ensano]

here's a couple HHs for you

hand #1 I made a read and I stuck with it
***** Hand History for Game 4130480797 *****
$25 NL Texas Hold'em - Saturday, April 29, 15:54:35 ET 2006
Table Table 97841 (Real Money)
Seat 5 is the button
Total number of players : 9
Seat 4: AKBaldacci ( $25 )
Seat 5: Gleufdier ( $39.20 )
Seat 6: SmokeWEEDo0 ( $21.40 )
Seat 8: SMFJ28 ( $38.34 )
Seat 9: J_KiRk ( $26.15 )
Seat 10: Tomba29 ( $26.24 )
Seat 3: Ensano ( $25.65 )
Seat 1: armypants ( $27.11 )
Seat 7: got_2Jo ( $5 )
SmokeWEEDo0 posts small blind [$0.10].
got_2Jo posts big blind [$0.25].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Ensano [ As Ah ]
SMFJ28 calls [$0.25].
J_KiRk folds.
Tomba29 folds.
armypants folds.
Ensano raises [$1].
AKBaldacci folds.
Gleufdier folds.
SmokeWEEDo0 folds.
got_2Jo folds.
SMFJ28 calls [$0.75].
** Dealing Flop ** [ Th, Kd, 6s ]
SMFJ28 checks.
blaylol has joined the table.
Ensano checks.
** Dealing Turn ** [ 6d ]
SMFJ28 bets [$0.50].
Ensano raises [$1.50].
SMFJ28 raises [$5].
Ensano folds.
SMFJ28 shows [ 6h, 7h ] three of a kind, sixes.
SMFJ28 wins $9.10 from the main pot with three of a kind, sixes.


Hand #2 Figured he was calling with top pair... checking may not have been the best play but...

***** Hand History for Game 4154801829 *****
$25 NL Texas Hold'em - Monday, May 01, 20:36:45 ET 2006
Table Table 95458 (Real Money)
Seat 6 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 2: hiLiClty ( $32.40 )
Seat 9: BILLEDWARDS2 ( $30.38 )
Seat 10: cestpasmoi ( $27.30 )
Seat 8: Ensano ( $27.55 )
Seat 7: deuce7gg ( $29.15 )
Seat 4: Boomie99 ( $4.75 )
Seat 5: yair01 ( $36.36 )
Seat 1: danaltman12 ( $19.84 )
Seat 6: peletes ( $4.40 )
Seat 3: bennybenster ( $5 )
deuce7gg posts small blind [$0.10].
Ensano posts big blind [$0.25].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Ensano [ As Ah ]
BILLEDWARDS2 raises [$0.50].
cestpasmoi folds.
danaltman12 folds.
hiLiClty calls [$0.50].
Boomie99 folds.
yair01 folds.
peletes folds.
deuce7gg folds.
Ensano raises [$1.25].
BILLEDWARDS2 calls [$1].
hiLiClty calls [$1].
** Dealing Flop ** [ Ks, 6h, 9s ]
Ensano bets [$3].
BILLEDWARDS2 calls [$3].
hiLiClty folds.
** Dealing Turn ** [ Kh ]
Ensano checks.
BILLEDWARDS2 bets [$10].
Ensano folds.
BILLEDWARDS2 does not show cards.
BILLEDWARDS2 wins $20.10


all in all after 108 times I only folded AA twice

[groton]

the first hand u should of bet the flop u would of took it down right there for a small win.