pair & backdoor draw

[krakajak]

Here's a situation I often find myself in:

I have 8s, 9s. The flop comes Td, 8h, 2s. So I have 2nd pair, and back door draws to a straight and a flush.

In this situation I usually see the turn, and if a 7,8,9, J or spade comes, I see the river.

What usually happens is, I hit a card that gives me a 4 straight or 4 flush on the turn, but then get nothing on the river.

I have talked to a few players who say they make a lot of money on this type of a flop, but I never seem to. Would I be better off folding on the flop?

[Dave B]

yes-never never never chase runner runner str8 or flush. If you like calling w/ the 2nd pair (preflop raise-maybe he is betting out w/ AK), then call based on that.

If you are chasing a 8 or 9 outer, the odds of going runner runner are 2%. Unless you are getting 50:1 on your bet, fold.

[nicthestick]

is this limit or NL??

[snoogins47]

The scope of the game, format, players, the hand up to that point.. everything in the world affects how I would play a situation like that.

There are times that I'd be very, very aggressive with a hand like that, and sometimes that I'd be very, very scared.

I wouldn't mind at all taking the driver's seat in a situation like this, at least on the flop. If you get played back it, it's a judgement call on whether or not to throw it away.

If you feel you have a chance of winning the pot right there, and you feel, as you rightly should, that you MAY have the best hand at the moment anyway, I'd bet it out. But of course, I love to be the aggressor in 90% of the pots I play in.

Now, the bet has another benefit in that many times, it will get checked to you on the turn. If you're in position, you can give yourself a free card this way, paying an extra small bet on the flop with the chance of saving a big bet on the next street.

If there's like, 8 people in the pot and you're playing some low limit no-foldem... well I would probably not advise a bet in this situation.

So yes, short answer: It depends.