Vegas hand: AK UTG

[TheSalche]

Just got back from Vegas earlier tonight, managed to be up 368 playing poker over probably 12 - 15 hours at 1/2 NL, not bad, could've been better.

Here's one hand that really had me confused, most of the rest of the hands I figured out how I played poorly, etc, but this one seems a bit tricky.

Sat down an orbit ago at the 1/2 at Mirage and I see AKo UTG and raise to 10 (my stack is 200), the guy to my left has roughly 300 and calls, one fold, next guy goes all-in for 45 total, some more folds and a young shaved head business type guy thinks for about 30 seconds shuffling his chips and calls, blinds fold and its up to me. I can't recall exactly how deep he was, but he probably had between 150 and 250.

I think I made the worst play by calling here, so forget that option. Is this a shove because of the dead money? Or do I fold due to my lack of information?

[xDiamond_CutteRx]

I definitely like a shove here.

[Ciso_B]

I don't know how bad nl $200 players play in vegas, but I vote for fold here. I don't look for oppurtunities to gamble with AK for that much against an 2 allins ,albeit 1 being short. You don't the players well enough in 1 orbit, its only AK and you`ve only invested $10. What do I know though, I suck.

[supafrey]

I push push push this all day.

[miaowmiaowchowface]

Push.

[fiezk]

push

[kingetje]

i like a shove too. the shorty who pushed we're not worried about.

the coldcaller in my experience in live games could have anything from JTs to 22 to 54o, A9s and QQ/KK/AA.... so shove

[TheSalche]

Hand seemed more interesting at the time because I just sat down and wasn't really thinking about what I was doing ... one of my lessons from the trip.

Shove would've been beautiful, as the coldcaller ended up losing with KK to AT on Q77QA board, so I would've raked a healthy pot with a two outer.

[Dave B]

I am curious as to why people like the push so much. Sure, if you are against 22-QQ my mouth is watering at the positive equity. But with just AK, a limp, a big raise and another call, I am very concerned that 2-3 of my outs are gone (yes, I know that looks silly after seeing the results).

If this was limit, no way do I reraise in this situation. Why build a pot if you are likely behind and need to hit to win? I dont even 3 bet from the blinds w/ AK vs a large field calling a raised pot (although last night I capped in limit w/ AQ vs an all in and 2 fish calling stations from the blind, but that was situational).

Dont you have to assume someone has a pocket pair, and if they do, do you really feel that you are better than 35-40% in most hands like this? I see a ton of people just calling large raises in NL w/ KK QQ and waiting to see if it is all unders on the flop.

I also see a TON of people overplay AK in multiway pots and go down in flames. Heads up, sure, I am only worried about 2 hands, but multiway pots....I dont push here.

[crack]

You push because you have equity in the move. All of them may have you beat with a pair, but are they really going to call for a full stack with any pair other than AA or KK? Probably not.

The SS going in is perfect because he may be sticking it in with any reasonable enough hand and it gives you the opportunity to get the other hands out (Resulting in dead money).

You then flip it with the SS or dominate them more often than not.

I don't play NL any more but that looks to me why you would shove here, I could be wrong.

[supafrey]

Sat down an orbit ago at the 1/2 at Mirage and I see AKo UTG and raise to 10 (my stack is 200), the guy to my left has roughly 300 and calls, one fold, next guy goes all-in for 45 total, some more folds and a young shaved head business type guy thinks for about 30 seconds shuffling his chips and calls, blinds fold and its up to me. I can't recall exactly how deep he was, but he probably had between 150 and 250.

Dave: Which player are you worried about exactly? Caller 1 could be putting us on anything, and isn't calling in ep with a monster.
Mr all in could have any pair, any two big suited cards... at+... that's a pretty wide range against AK considering he only has 20bb. (People live with 20bb are not pro shortstackers.. they just suck).
Mr shaved head is a bit of a concern, but that's only because he was willing to cold call with you left to act. This screams medium pair and higher, but very, very unlikely to be AA.

So we're talking about MAYBE risking 200ish to be in a $500+ pot. We'd get to see 5 cards and are likely pretty set.
Remember we're utg, too - it's very, very likely that gives us the vig to get the late fold usually. The vast majority of times we're gonna be in a $130ish pot with AK (very, very likely to be a dominating hand against the shortie)

Lol at you mentioning the limit stuff

[Dave B]

Sorry for suggesting that your outs might be gone (rational for the limit link), that requires thinking.

I dont see where your numbers tie out. $200 to win $500? I see a 50% chance that you will win $110($10 $10 $45 $45) by betting $200 and a 20-30% chance that you will win $355. I dont see baldy calling $200 reraise with anything but AA KK or maybe AK.

What am I afraid of? The bald guy cold calling 22+ big blinds w/ nothing invested into a 33 BB pot. What else? I still need to hit.

I sit down and raise UTG to $10, you arent going to get anyone off a hand 1/2 at the Mirage for less than $20. So, the limp I am not real concerned about A5 suited, 89 suited, 44, anything. The all in for $45, I believe that he either has a big ace (good for us) or JJ (not bad for us). When baldy cold calls (not a huge stack, no reason to think he is a nut), I think he has JJ at the worst, and more likely AA.

Folding is OK, I hate a push. But yes, I am capable of folding AK preflop. Maybe some of you are too anxious to rebuy.

[gumbie]

How many ppl were playing?

[Dave B]

Mirage is 10 handed if the table is full (they typically are except for early mornings).

[supafrey]

Sorry for suggesting that your outs might be gone (rational for the limit link), that requires thinking.

I dont see where your numbers tie out. $200 to win $500? I see a 50% chance that you will win $110($10 $10 $45 $45) by betting $200 and a 20-30% chance that you will win $355. I dont see baldy calling $200 reraise with anything but AA KK or maybe AK.

What am I afraid of? The bald guy cold calling 22+ big blinds w/ nothing invested into a 33 BB pot. What else? I still need to hit.

I sit down and raise UTG to $10, you arent going to get anyone off a hand 1/2 at the Mirage for less than $20. So, the limp I am not real concerned about A5 suited, 89 suited, 44, anything. The all in for $45, I believe that he either has a big ace (good for us) or JJ (not bad for us). When baldy cold calls (not a huge stack, no reason to think he is a nut), I think he has JJ at the worst, and more likely AA.

Folding is OK, I hate a push. But yes, I am capable of folding AK preflop. Maybe some of you are too anxious to rebuy.

This is all horrible, horrible logic.

First off, you're a condescending ass. I laughed at your limit stuff because it doesn't apply.

Secondly, I said 500 dollar pot. Reading comprehension.

Thirdly, you aren't "risking" 200 necessarily to win 100. The vast majority of times this comes up your opponents will fold. You're pushing people out to isolate against a weak player - something AA would be doing in late position as well, especially since he has to think he's gonna be playing in a 3 or maybe even 4 way pot when UTG raised to 5x, and you're getting like 4 to 1 to at least call. LP has TT-KK here almost always. Occasionally AA, but considering we have AK, I'll write that part of the range off for the rare time we also get a moron doing it with 88/99 to get tricky.

About "risk" .. it's almost like you're playing multiple pots here against several people. The vast majority of time you are going to just be "risking" 50 bucks to win substantially more.

This is live poker, all ins have weight to them. I'm not "looking to reload" as much as play properly and aggressively. We've been at the table one orbit, and look like TheSalche (douchey average white guy looking frat .25/.5 online superstar to strangers). They're gonna fold alot, and we're going to win money.