bad ettiquitte

[krakajak]

I get AA in early position in a SNG. Blinds are 25/50. I limp in cause I don't wanna scare everyone out of the pot. The guy after me only has 60 chips, so he goes all in. A bunch of people call, and since there are so many callers, I wanna get some of them out, so when it comes back to me I raise it to 300. This one guy starts going off on me, calling me a d1ck and everything. He said that the purpose of letting you re-raise is to play back at the person who bet, but since he was all in, I wasn't playing back at him, and so I should've just called. He also said that in a real casino, I wouldn't be allowed to do it.
2 questions: First, was I really wrong, or was this guy just pissed off cause I made him fold his chips. Second, is he right that casions don't allow that kind of bet? I have never heard of such a rule.

[wEbMaStEr]

well ..... no he's wrong
you are allowed to re-raise for exactly the reasons you did so
you weren't just playing back at the all in guy, but also at all the callers to his all in.
Many times i have found myself re-raising someone who is all in when we are in early position for precisely the reason that i dont want people after me limping in relatively cheaply, particularly if i have a good, but not unbeatable hand.
e.g. 6 people at the table blinds are called round to the button who goes all in with 500 chips, i'm on bb so i might re-raise to 1500 if i have QQ cos i dont want any of the next 3 guys calling with an A rag and punking out on me.
As for in a casino...... i'm pretty sure they allow re-raising in NLHE games 8)

[Always_Bored]

Not only are you allowed to do that, I think it is a smart move. I do that quite often myself. Even though I wouldnt limp in with A,A. I at least always bet small with it. If someone bets back at me then I raise big.

[Jauron]

That guy is going to whine about nearly everything I can almost gaurentee you. He shouldn't have just called himself, because he was just begging you to do what you did.

It's called a freeze out, and it's one of the smartest moves you can make on a hand where you know you have the best hand (or as in KK or QQ probably the best hand) pre-flop and protect youself at the same time. The math shows the more people in the hand the more Aces get cracked. In the home games I play in an all in is less likely to get called than to generate another all in bet right behind it. I am seriously surprised every time an all in bet gets just called if someone is left to act behind the caller, and it's usually a weak player doing it.

Basically your saying, the pot is big enough now to attract weaker hands, now I have to flush those hands out to protect mine.



BTW, I never ever limp in with Aces, I just strongly beleive thats the wrong move to make. Your inviting your hand to get beatin by a hand that had no bussiness in the pot when you do that IMHO. Thats just me though, I know plenty of people who would do the same thing you did pre flop in early position. To me they are so scared about not getting paid with Aces they are willing to enter a race with them (and three or four handed to me is almost a race), and thats a bad play to me.

[SnakeOiler]

Jauron pretty much said exactly right.

Good Advice J.

[Fat Tony]

BTW, I never ever limp in with Aces, I just strongly beleive thats the wrong move to make. Your inviting your hand to get beatin by a hand that had no bussiness in the pot when you do that IMHO

and if the aces get cracked because of weak betting that lets people stay in the hand, they claim it was a "bad beat" (which IMO is the most overused phrase in the game) when really it was thier own fault for not betting limpers out of the hand.

[Always_Bored]

and if the aces get cracked because of weak betting that lets people stay in the hand, they claim it was a "bad beat" (which IMO is the most overused phrase in the game) when really it was thier own fault for not betting limpers out of the hand.

Exactly!! There is a guy that plays in our weekly game and he has NEVER raised preflop. Even with aces or kings when its shorthanded. He says I like to sucker people in. Well it doesnt work.

We keep track of who has won what and so forth. He is the only one who has NEVER come in the money (first or second) in the almost year we have been playing. Thats not the only reason he loses but its one of them.

[JimTheBullet]

I agree with most of what people have said here except that I don't always regard flat calling in early position with AA to be "limping". Depending on who is sat at the table it can be regarded as an aggressive move because you may know that one or two people acting after you will almost certainly raise. In this way when the action gets back to you there is more money in the pot for you to raise at than there would have been the first time round. It is one way of getting round the old adage that with AA you will either win a small pot or lose a big one.

Of course, if you flat call early and nobody raises then you have a problem since so many people have a chance to hit 2 pair or whatever. At least you are safe knowing that nobody suspects you of having the bullets though. If an ace comes on the flop, this will be one of the most profitable hands possible since the other guy at the table with the ace in his hand won't suspect you of having one, never mind two. Of course, that happy turn of events happens extremely rarely.

[krakajak]

Actually, I just found out that the guy was right! I stumbled upon the rules of the tournament director's association on some website, and it said:

In no-limit, less than a full raise does not reopen the betting to a player who already has acted.

Go figure.

[rocflight]

In no-limit, less than a full raise does not reopen the betting to a player who already has acted.

I must not be understanding this correctly.

You checked, someone raised all-in, doesn't that open the betting to you? Don't think you violated this one with your play.

[nicthestick]

Since it is not a full raise, You may not be able to reraise.... However, I really like the play of limping with the AA in EP hoping to reraise the LP player and pick up the players inbetween the two of you. In EP, I limp, 2 other limpers, then a raiser on the button, I would move in with AA at this point, and either pick up the pot, or get called with the preflop nuts.... neither is a horrible proposition... as far as not getting raised preflop, it is very easy to let them go if a scary flop comes, or if an A hits, you are looking at unlimited action from AK or any other set.... A good play on your part IMO.

[krakajak]

I definately violated the rule, but I didn't even know about the rule at the time. I thought the guy was full of it. Empire Poker will let you raise in this position. So I guess a better question is whether I should observe this rule in the future, or should I do whatever the pokerroom software will let me?

[redd38]

Do whatever the poker software will let you do. That's how 98% of the other people will be playing methinks, and not playing that way will put you at a disadvantage (a very, very small one.... )

[JohnnyCache]

well, the full raise rull is a thing that varies from house to house - and I doubt the whinner knew about it. The whiner's rationale was just plain wrong.

Assuming that rule isn't a factor in the situation: The other thing about this is if someone bets with a short stack all in, you don't always want to check it out like a lot of people like - this is a habit born of home games where no one wants to think hard enough to manage a side pot.

You want to keep playing with the other people for the simple fact that the second best hand might win a side pot bigger then the main pot!