HSP season 5 episode 2

[Dave B]

Did anyone see the Dwan/Eastgate/Greenstein hand?

All episodes are on pokertube if you missed it.

[HalfSugar]

Did anyone see the Dwan/Eastgate/Greenstein hand?

Without giving any spoilers - holy shitballs

[xDiamond_CutteRx]

That was a really sick hand. Durrrr has a lot of balls.

Mini-spoiler: he fires a $100K bullet into two people with the third best hand.

[Dave B]

I still dont get it. Both Eastgate and Greenstein pretty much announce their hand. Dwan keeps firing w/ solid reads on each player and having a sense of how they will react.

BUT, how in the F* do E and G not make a correct read here? Also, E's cold call pretty much tells G that he is behind, so why is he calling D's raise on the flop.

If you are E, why are you calling 50k w/ that hand and then folding on the turn.

I heard G say, later, that he was grossly outplayed, but thought that it would get checked around on the turn. Once Durrrrr fired, he thought he must have the 2.


I see 2 things (well, many more actually) that would have dramatically changed things. If G folds to the raise and cold call on the flop, then I think E calls down vs D heads up.

If E had folded on the flop (why he would, I dont know, but why fold w/ that turn), I think G calls down and wins.


What I think really happened was that E didnt want to get involved and risk 500k. I think he knew he was ahead, but was just playing risk averse. G was only playing for 200k or so, I really think once E folds, he needs to push for his remaining 150k (50k raise) here.

E was afraid of G and not D.

G was afraid of D.

D-right position, right read.

[xDiamond_CutteRx]

I think you're mostly right. Let's take into account what we know (or what is likely):

1. Eastgate does not want to play a big pot without the nuts. This is obvious from how he played the A6 against Tom earlier.

2. Durrrr had *appeared* to change gears, and had just shown down some big hands, including the nut straight he check-raised Ziigmund on the river with.

It was pretty apparent from the betting that Eastgate had a 2. Barry could not have liked the action on the flop--frankly, I'm a little surprised he didn't fold after Peter overcalled. Tom definitely knew he didn't have the best hand after getting called in two places. Eastgate was likely to have a 2, and Barry's range was weighted toward TT+, since he had raised UTG. When they both check the turn, Tom probably thought he could get Peter off a bare 2, especially given that Barry would have to act after him, and probably thought he could get Barry off an overpair (TT had to be a concern, but durrrr isn't about to surrender the pot there) by firing a huge bullet. I think because of the hands they actually had, it was perfect. Of course, if Barry had TT instead of AA, a lot of people would be talking about how horrible Tom's play was.

Eastgate feared that Barry may have actually had TT, and had to be at least a little worried that Tom had a better deuce, even if Barry didn't have him beat. Given what the players were representing, his fold seems reasonable. If Barry hadn't been in the pot, I don't know what Peter would have done, but I think the action would have been quite different heads-up. Now, Barry's reasoning was already posted online, so we won't get into it much here, but at the time, he wasn't entirely convinced Tom would fire $100K into two players without having AA beat.

[xDiamond_CutteRx]

Barry's analysis of the hand:

http://pokerroad.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5203

[Dave B]

I hate that A6 comparison, that was a pretty coordinated board on the flop and many, many logical hands had Eastgate beat. Many people are with you comparing those two, I just dont like it.

I think Eastgate was willing to play a big hand, but when Durrr was being aggressive and Greenstein was just calling, I think he was concerned that Barry was trapping w/ the flopped boat. BG hadnt exactly been splashing and calling the big raise w/ just an overpair was uncharacteristic.

[xDiamond_CutteRx]

I didn't say Eastgate's play with A6 was bad. I am simply pointing out that Tom clearly saw it and extrapolated from that that Peter did not want to play a big pot without the nuts or near-nuts. Whether Eastgate played that hand well or not is irrelevant--how Tom perceived him based off that hand and others is much more relevant.

[gumbie]

Greenstein played every street pretty bad.

[HalfSugar]

I didn't say Eastgate's play with A6 was bad. I am simply pointing out that Tom clearly saw it and extrapolated from that that Peter did not want to play a big pot without the nuts or near-nuts.

While I agree, I don't see how Eastgate flat calling the flop tells Dwan anything that would suggest that he's not up against the nuts. Eastage w/TT flats there so Dwan firing again on the turn into Eastage AND Greenstein is ballsy and potentially dumb as hell.

I personally think Eastgate folded for two main reasons which have already been touched on:

1) He did not want to play a $500K pot with Dwan (who's range definitely includes 2X)
2) Barry's range included TT and with only $150K behind, if Eastgate calls Dwan's turn bet, he's donking off $50K more into Greenstein's flopped boat if that is what he has.

I don't think Eastgate played it bad, I think he was just out of position on Greenstein.

Every time I see Dwan play he amazes me. Love the guy, and it was very interesting to hear Gabe Kaplan say that the only other player he could see making that move was Stu Ungar. High praise indeed.

[xDiamond_CutteRx]

Gabe Kaplan say that the only other player he could see making that move was Stu Ungar. High praise indeed.

And also terribly inaccurate. Dwan actually wins in cash games.

[Dave B]

Unger lived on cash games. No?

There were stories of him being drunk and high and donking off stacks, but in general, it was the sports book and other games than killed Stu, not losing at cash games.

[gumbie]

2) Barry's range included TT and with only $150K behind, if Eastgate calls Dwan's turn bet, he's donking off $50K more into Greenstein's flopped boat if that is what he has.

Barry said on his sit that he NEVER has TT in this spot.

LOL lol LOL, Eastgate can't have expected greensteain to be that bad, and since AA should be an instafold there i can't see what else he thought he could have.

[xDiamond_CutteRx]

Unger lived on cash games. No?

There were stories of him being drunk and high and donking off stacks, but in general, it was the sports book and other games than killed Stu, not losing at cash games.

In the limit games, or in any NL game with deep stacks that had more than 6 people at the table, Stu got crushed. Short-handed or with fairly high blinds, almost nobody could beat him. But he was terrible at adapting to games outside his comfort zone, mostly because he was an action junkie.

[golddog]

Unger lived on cash games. No?

There were stories of him being drunk and high and donking off stacks, but in general, it was the sports book and other games than killed Stu, not losing at cash games.

Well, I think it was the abuse of cocaine that killed him.