TexasHoldem-Poker.com

[HalfSugar]

It is widely recognised that 72o is the worst starting hand in holdem but I wonder if someone can back this up with some numbers? There is a guy I play poker with who argues that 32o is worse but his argument is based around him being able to shout louder than anyone else rather than any facts so I'd like to know the real answer.

Instinctively, 32o seems like it may edge 72o for worse hand because the number of straights it will make are probably outweighed by the lack of ever having an overcard against any random hand. Without numbers though, that is impossible to say and I am guessing.

My suspicion is that 72o is the worst starting hand in a full ring game and 32o might edge it heads up but I'd like to see a full set of numbers run with 72o vs XX and 32o vs XX first of all if such a thing exists?

[Kemics]

Is this what you mean?

Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

25,170,868,800 games 17.703 secs 1,421,841,992 games/sec

Board:
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 34.584% 31.71% 02.87% 7981752972 723251520.00 { 72o }
Hand 1: 65.416% 62.54% 02.87% 15742612788 723251520.00 { random }


Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

25,170,868,800 games 18.344 secs 1,372,158,133 games/sec

Board:
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 32.303% 29.24% 03.06% 7359823500 771179670.00 { 32o }
Hand 1: 67.697% 64.63% 03.06% 16268685960 771179670.00 { random }

So i suppose in theory if you just ran cards 72o is marginal better but only just. But in reality 32o probably has more equity as a hand, because if you make a wheel you can play for stacks. Whereas 72o, the only decent hand is a boat, and even with 2-pair, the board can counterfeit you hand and if you make naked trips you'll often lose to a better kicker. Could argue it either way i suppose.

[edit] whoops only did heads up, numbers for ring games.

[Kemics]

32o VS 8 randoms

Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

36,559,904 games 177.594 secs 205,862 games/sec

Board:
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 06.816% 06.18% 00.63% 2261057 230929.33 { 32o }
Hand 1: 13.319% 12.11% 01.21% 4427966 441426.00 { random }
Hand 2: 13.309% 12.10% 01.21% 4424421 441353.58 { random }
Hand 3: 13.313% 12.11% 01.21% 4425612 441699.92 { random }
Hand 4: 13.304% 12.10% 01.21% 4422587 441256.75 { random }
Hand 5: 13.311% 12.10% 01.21% 4424507 441942.42 { random }
Hand 6: 13.315% 12.11% 01.21% 4426449 441653.17 { random }
Hand 7: 13.313% 12.10% 01.21% 4425051 442142.33 { random }

[Kemics]

72o VS 8 random

Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

40,270,400 games 198.438 secs 202,936 games/sec

Board:
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 06.158% 05.30% 00.86% 2132414 347425.92 { 72o }
Hand 1: 13.400% 12.21% 01.19% 4917219 478855.17 { random }
Hand 2: 13.404% 12.21% 01.19% 4918822 479166.83 { random }
Hand 3: 13.402% 12.21% 01.19% 4918170 478721.50 { random }
Hand 4: 13.414% 12.22% 01.19% 4921935 480116.00 { random }
Hand 5: 13.418% 12.23% 01.19% 4924204 479153.67 { random }
Hand 6: 13.402% 12.21% 01.19% 4918001 479164.00 { random }
Hand 7: 13.402% 12.21% 01.19% 4918250 478935.92 { random }


So if i get it right 32o is a tiny bit better in a ring game. However this is the first time i have ever used pokerstove so i might have misunderstood something and these numbers are totally meaningless

[xDiamond_CutteRx]

72 is a favorite over 32, significantly. In fact, 32 is the worst hand against any other hand matchup. However, against THE field of all random hands, 72 is slightly worse than 32.

Kinda a ridiculously distinction though, since they're both crap hands.

[gumbie]

32 is worse all in preflop, shortstacked tournament button shoves blind calls etc.

postflop deep it plays slightly better because you can flop a str8 or an oesd.