Dealer error question

[HalfSugar]

I remember reading a post which I think was on here where there was a discussion about a live hand played where the dealer scooped in a player's hand AFTER they had pushed all-in because they had not protected their cards and the dealer had made an error.

In the first of the latest WSOP ME episodes, the exact scenario just arose involving a French lady who had pushed all-in over a pre-flop raise. The dealer scooped in her hand and the floor was called.

The French lady whispered the cards into the ear of the floorman who checked the top of the muck. He said they did not match and so she lost the chips required to call the pre-flop raise and got the rest of her stack back.

The reason I post is because when I read about this before, someone said that they thought that in this scenario, if the player who's hand was mucked whispered the wrong cards to the floor man, they should be kicked out of the tournament. I agree with that sentiment but the French lady received no penalty whatsoever. Surely, if she were stupid, she could claim to have Aces hoping that they were in the muck pile to try and gain an advantage? Of course on the WSOP broadcast she did say she had Aces but who knows? It did not occur at a table with cameras unfortunately.

[crack]

I really doubt she was lying. First off, she did stick all her chips in on the flop IIRC. So why say she had AA? She could have said something that hit the flop better unless the flop was an A of course. Also, her cards were not on top of the muck, they didn't know really where her cards were. The look on her face as well along with it all being the heat of the moment, I doubt she was quick enough to realise she could have possibly lied to gain an advantage.

I believe if she kicked off big style another ruling would have been made.

[kingetje]

the dealer clearly did not put her cards on top of the muck.

[HalfSugar]

My question should have been a bit more general - if this happens, should a player be kicked out if they seem to have lied about their hand?

[crack]

You would need concrete proof they were lying, and if the dealer makes an error like mucking their cards by mistake, how could you trust where he said he mucked the cards?

[HalfSugar]

If there is a muck pile with, say, 12 cards in it and you say "I had Ace, King of spades", if they aren't in there, it's bye bye tourney as far as I am concerned. Digging through the muck is obviously not ideal but per Jack Effel (I forget where I read this but I'll find it) it's the right ruling in this spot and should be done by the TD/floor man.

[Jernej Zorec]

what if ur tired after playing so many days for so many hours and u misread ur cards, should u get kicked out coz of it ?

[HalfSugar]

If you have shoved all-in, you really ought to be awake enough to remember two cards I would think

[golddog]

From what I saw of the show, they made a fair ruling. Her cards were scooped in the muck, but not buried. It seemed like she realized what the dealer was doing and stopped him just as they were going in.

The dealer believed he could identify her cards, she told the floor, the cards indicated did not match.

The only thing that wasn't really detailed was whether there was potential action behind her.

After all, it is ultimately her responsibility to protect her hand. If there was someone behind her, what if they shoved once they realized her hand had been mucked? (It wasn't specified if the bettor -- JC Tran maybe?-- was all-in on the blind or something) If he wasn't allowed to re-raise/call her bet, why not?

I don't agree with being kicked out for making a mistake. It seems like she got treated overly fairly though.