step by step tourney hand

[Ciso_B]

ok this could be fun to do. This is $11r on ftp, theres 90 left 60 pay, I been at this table like 5 hands or something. What you wanna do here preflop first of all? Reraise? Call ?or fold?


Full Tilt Poker Game #19404381400: $15,000 Guarantee (Rebuy) (147738070), Table 27 - 400/800 Ante 100 - No Limit Hold'em - 1:44:06 ET - 2010/03/20
Seat 1: Tess Steckle (18,478), is sitting out
Seat 2: jarvisred (27,070)
Seat 3: KRAKheadDEAD (20,908)
Seat 4: capillary (26,816)
Seat 5: RockRoomCV (21,858)
Seat 6: Ciso (48,216)
Seat 7: Rip25 (35,799)
Seat 8: yannieboi (80,488)
Seat 9: klodi (45,645)
Tess Steckle antes 100
jarvisred antes 100
KRAKheadDEAD antes 100
capillary antes 100
RockRoomCV antes 100
Ciso antes 100
Rip25 antes 100
yannieboi antes 100
klodi antes 100
RockRoomCV posts the small blind of 400
Ciso posts the big blind of 800
The button is in seat #4
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Ciso [Qd Kh]
Rip25 folds
yannieboi folds
klodi has 15 seconds left to act
klodi raises to 1,880
Tess Steckle folds
jarvisred folds
KRAKheadDEAD folds
capillary has 15 seconds left to act
capillary calls 1,880
RockRoomCV folds
Ciso..............

[miaowmiaowchowface]

call i guess

[Ciso_B]

Ciso calls 1,080
*** FLOP *** [2s Qc 4c]
Ciso ....


Pot about 6,200? stacks are above.

[HalfSugar]

Pot sized bet.

[Ciso_B]

Could you elaborate on why pot bet lead? And tell me what you intend to do based on different actions of opponents in this hand andy.

[miaowmiaowchowface]

if guys cbetting a tonne on this board c/c iguess

[Ciso_B]

Ciso checks
klodi has 15 seconds left to act
klodi bets 2,950
capillary calls 2,950
Ciso has 15 seconds left to act
Ciso...

[jimmer]

Love the idea ciso, but wondering if you could slow down with the replies a little.

You might get more people contributing!

Also, as long as people explain their moves and the reasons why, I would really love you to do this regularly, as i can see it being a massive tool to improve my game.

nice1

[jimmer]

Heres my reply:

Post flop: I'm guessing we are facing at least a pocket pair and / or AQ -KJ or Ax suited, so we call.

Flop: Two opponents, you gotta lead with a pot sized bet, as anything smaller could lead to the first guy calling and then the other calling just because of the pot odds etc (which wouldn't help you as we would be none the wiser what they had)

I don't like the check against two opponents especially after simply calling post flop. By checking here as well you are really no futher forward with defining their hand if one of them bets after you (especially if it's capillary who would have already seen a check-check before him).

Now: (I still kinda think you've dug yourself a hole), but i'm guessing you checked on the flop to now raise it up. So i raise 10k-12k.

If klodi continues to play, we may be in big trouble.

If capillary wants to play he will only have 10k left after calling your raise, so he will probably push all in or fold. If he pushes all-in, pot odds say we call.

Of course, I've never been this deep in a tourney ever, so i could be totally wrong!

[HalfSugar]

Why do I have a feeling that the nits (eg jimmer and I) will say one thing and the pr0s (eg Ciso and Eldar) will say something completely different?

As jimmer says, this could work out very useful so even though I'm going to look like a tard, here is why I would pot sized bet (based on NO reads and not even knowing what your table image is like of course). I've not read jimmer's reply yet by the way so this is all my own donkey effort:

We are out of position and we've got one of the best flops we can probably hope for here. By pot betting in first position, we are committing to the hand if capillary raises (since his only move is to push) but we are also asking the question of whether klodi wants to play his entire stack.

If klodi raises it depends a lot then on the size of the raise and what capillary does. If klodi folds and capillary shoves we make the crying call. There are worse spots to be calling an AI. If either/both call, we reassess the turn. Not the most useful description there but what else can I say?

By committing ~6K chips opening here, I think we can learn a lot more about our opponents' hands than by checking and risking them checking behind and catching up on what might appear to be a blank turn. Capillary is on the button after all so his range even with that small-ish stack will be wide unless he's a total nit.

[jimmer]

.... I've not read jimmer's reply yet by the way so this is all my own donkey effort:

in that case, once you've read my reply, you will realise we are probably brothers separated at birth. The theory behind our replies (and therefore our moves) is exactly the same......and as you pointed out....probably wrong!

[Ciso_B]

Sorry for not waiting longer jimmer mate, once i got geno/deldar reply i thought that would suffice, since this isnt' the most popular part of forum.

Btw- LOL at saying me and deldar will say similar, he thinks im the worst and i think hes a dip so thats that.

Neway, I think call pf is totally standard, flop, I sometimes lead but decided there might be more value checking, when it went bet and call I had a decision though. Obv folding is out of question, capillary has 21/22k after calling, pot is what 12k? After bet and call here, what do you think about calling here ? C/r to 10-12k and we have to call capillary ye.

I don't think we dug hole here jimmer tho, betting right out pot size bet to me seems like we chase away hands we beat and let them off hook while also puttin me in shit if they raise cos what hands worse apart from big draw will raise/stack.

[odlozilik]

I am really not sure is it better to donk lead this flop or not. If they both call or one of them raises, we are in trouble (some of good players might raise here with air as pf raisor). I would prefer check call or check raise.
As it happened the c-bet is quite weak (less than half the pot), I would check raise here (10K or so). If Klodi shoves, I would (probably) fold. The worst if they both call lol.

[HalfSugar]

You guys really ought to listen to me. Just now, watching the latest HSP, Dwan was considering a bet and I said to my mate it would be $265,700. It was $268,200. Watch out.

[Ciso_B]

Ciso calls 2,950
*** TURN *** [2s Qc 4c]
Ciso checks
klodi has 15 seconds left to act
klodi has requested TIME
klodi checks
capillary bets 21,886, and is all in
Ciso has 15 seconds left to act
Ciso