Pokerstars odds

[als24]

Been playing Pokerstars for a couple months, basically the freeroll tourneys with a little real money play but very little, and have noticed that the odds on there are really screwed up. It seems at some times where the site just doesnt want you in anymore. For instance, on back to back to back hands, i had top pair off the flop, with no real straight or flush draws on flop, and someone ended up beating me with a straight, then a flush, and then 3 of a kind. This seems to happen with much more regularity than it should and not just to me, to my friends, to other people at the table. Anyone know anything about this?

[Golden Holden]

Been playing Pokerstars for a couple months...

The simple explanation is that online poker is from 3 to 5 times as fast an land based poker. Instead of seeing 20 or so hands an hour, you may see 100 or more.

One thing about poker is that the really tough losses stick out in our memories more than the wins do. Since you're playing so many more hands an hour, over the course of months, its natural to think that something is wrong with the site, but it reality its just the rate of play combined with our psychological resistance to defeat.

Pokerstars doesn't want you to "get out", I promise. Each hand you stick around for is more money for them.

[als24]

they arent making too much money off freeroll tournaments. Im aware that there are plenty more hands, but it seems to happen at a higher ratio where both people need a 1 card to make a big hand or bigger hand and they get it.

[ColdBlooded]

I actually agree with als24.
Admittedly, I've only played in about 10 of the freerolls on poker stars, but it seems like if someone needs 1 card to win the hand, they get it more than they should.
Not that I'm complaining since i've benefitted from it several times (and burned by it a few times as well), but it almost seems ridiculous.
This is definitely not a case of selective memory.
Oh well, either way it's still fun to play in. I'm just glad someone else seems to have noticed this too.

[als24]

Just another example, in 1 hand there were, 1 AA, 2 KK, and 1 JJ pre-flop obviously. Don't think i've ever seen anything close to that before. O ya, i was 1 of the KK's with exactly 0 chance of winning the main pot, ended up splitting the side pot with the other KK.

[TexasRed]

You're right als...

I don't care how many hands are dealt per hour. Look at the FREQUENCY of certain hands being made in relationship to the number of hands dealt in a given session of play...

For instance a couple of nights back I saw quads dealt twice in twenty nine hands at the same table. I routinely see 4/kind at least once in an average session of play which for me is usually 150 to 200 hands. Never see 4/kind that often in live play...

I also agree about the "one needed card" theory...I noticed this phenomena months ago and have mentioned it to everyone I know who plays poker.

I think it is especially prevalent in tournaments where the "one needed card" will knock a player out of the tourney...Let's say you draw pocket A's and your opponent pocket J's...he bets into you putting you all-in, if you loose you're out, if he looses it only reduces his chip stack...you, of course call his bet and sure enough more often than would be expected he draws out with the needed third Jack on the river to beat your superior hand and send you packing...

I think it is programmed into the software to deal hands like this to keep the games moving fast and minimize the elapsed time that any tournament takes to reach it's conclusion, which if you think about it logically will actually result in more money for the website than if the tournaments dragged on for hours and hours...All those players who were bumped will go and sign up for another game or tourney that much sooner, resulting in more revenue for the site in a shorter amount of time.

I have had all of the standard conversations with the customer service people at PS, UB and PP and have received the same technical explanation about algorythms and RNG's etc...ad nauseum...I have played poker in card rooms for years and seen my share of bad beats and improbable hands but nothing like you see online.

In all fairness to Pokerstars I don't think that their site is any worse than any of the others, in fact for all of its short-comings I prefer it to any of the others that I have played on but I still don't buy the notion that the deal is a fair representation of actual poker hand probabilities.

[Silencer]

A couple weeks ago I was playing playing free single table NL tournaments on party poker. In about 5 hours I saw no less than 9 four of a kinds. We got like 3 in just a few minutes at the same table, it was crazy.

[Nugzy]

I also notice this alot, that is why Ive never invested ANY money into online poker. I just take the "Free $10" offers, play some limit, turn it into more, then play some tournaments, and just build from there.

It annoys me how incredibly lucky hands are always made on the river. People will bet all-in with inside straight draws and get called by the nuts and make their straight on the river. It always happens. It definately seems like it happens too often.

However, knowing a bit about computers and law, I dont think they are cheating you. *I think* most poker sites are monitored by gaming commissions. The cards are dealt using a random number generator. But just like slots, nothing on a computer is truly random. I think the RNG's used in online poker use other cards dealt and cards on the table to "Randomly" generate a new card, hence why you see so many incredible hands hit on the river.

How often in online play do you see Ace high win a pot, or just a pair, not often. Theres usually always a straight, flush, quads, or some other incredible hand dealt every time. I dont know, who cares, just dont put your money in online. Just use the free 10 bucks.

[Always_Bored]

A couple weeks ago I was playing playing free single table NL tournaments on party poker. In about 5 hours I saw no less than 9 four of a kinds. We got like 3 in just a few minutes at the same table, it was crazy.

I was playing poker at the a real casino and i saw 3 straight flushes and 2 four of a kind in under an hour. Cards are random and big hands can come out a lot and sometimes almost never. The next day i saw a guy get 4 full houses in a row. two of them being aces over kings. If i didnt know better i would have sworn he was cheating.

[wEbMaStEr]

When you are talking about freeroll games and micro limit cash games, you cannot draw any parralels(sp?) to what you are watching on t.v. (WPT, WSOP etc) cos on said freeroll/microlimit games you are not dealing with the Lederer's/Helmuth's/Chan's of this world, you are dealing with the fish of this world who will call any bet with any cards just to see the flop or the next card or cos they saw some pro on WPT take down a huge pot with 72os.
This is why you see more premium hands getting cracked and this is why you see people make those 2 outer flush/straight draws on the turn/river.
They don't win by good play, they dont win with good hands, they win on dumb luck, and in the long term......... they lose.
They are the reason you see so many hands being made.
We have a name for them, they are called no fold em's.

[sickofriverstars]

ok guys...yeah yeah yeah.
i'm sick of hearing guys try to explain to me that i'm just seeing more hands and it only seems the odds are not right....ok guys over a time span the odss should equal out. thats why they are odds. u shouldn't see pocket KK and JJ against each other ALL THE TIME.

i have played poker at home and casino's for over 10 years. i have 2 degree's and i'm telling you pokerstars and their odds are not right. i've played on their site for about 6 months and decided i'm done with them and have been playing at party poker and ultimate. at first i thought like the (oh they wouldn't do that) crowd. its just normal for AA to show up on 3 hands in a row. its just normal for boats to get beat by 4 of a kinds back to back hands. its just normal for a hnd to be losing then winning on the turn then losing on the flop. HOW MANY TIMES ARE U GOING TO HAVE TO SEE THIS TO GET IT.

i couldn't figure it out at first why pokerstars would do this. then it came to me. before u doubters so noooo. think first. how many bad poker players are there compared to better ones? ok how does poker stars get paid? ok now the big kicker....this is what they think poker should be about....EXCITEMENT. well thats not the poker i want. i don't want to have someone read correctly. then have my trips beat by someone drawing to a bigger boat by hitting not only on the turn but also having to hit on the river. i'm not talking about coin flip hands all in preflop...don't think they are above this. its dumb to think they wouldn't. its smart business.

YES U PLAY MORE HANDS. YES U MIGHT EVEN REMEMBER (BAD BEATS) better but come on guys odds are odds. next time u get on and play in a sit and go. just pay attention to how many times the underdog on all ins come back and win.....is the odds right? should the underdog win 50% or more...hmmm somehow i don't think that would be a underdog. how many times in 1 tournament does the lead in a hand change on the turn then the river. ok 1 tournament isn't enough you're right. wait then play in another and another....pokerstars...riverstars....don't tell me odds i have 4 shirts and 3 books from pokerstars to back my ODDS...they are not right!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[wEbMaStEr]

can someone tell if als24 and sickofriverstars are the same people?
i'm just wondering cos this topic raises its head yet again after 6 weeks now im just waiting on this idiot changing his name again and blaming some other site for his bad plays. Not only that but telling us yet again, that we don't know what we're talking about.

Couple of points here ok .......

1: If underdogs going all in win so much, then why don't you try playing that way? surely a smartie like you can see the profit this would turn.
(I personally have been forced all in in desperation on pokerstars many times, sometimes you luck out, but the majority of the time......... well you can guess the rest.)

2: And ok so you're a Harvard graduate or whatever and you already know everything, but what about this, not only do you see more hands online........... but you actually see more cards!! flop, turn, river during each hand. hence the more quads, boats, river runs/flushes etc etc etc.
This is especially tru in freerolls and micro limit games, where the play isn't exactly of the highest standard.

I'm bored with you now, you know it all already, so why even post your crap here?

No i don't work for pokerstars or have any affiliation to them, other than, i've been playing there for about 8 months and overall i'm UP about $900
So basically, you don't like it......... don't play there.

Oh! last thing i promise, I have also played PartyPoker, UltimateBet, ParadisePoker and Ladbrokes and hey guess what? I heard the same whiny b/s on all those sites too. I would suggest that these players are maybe not as good as they like to think they are and it's easier to blame the site than their bad play?

[BobS]

The bottom line is this:

All of the "XXX site is rigged" people act like there are 500 cards in a deck. Hello people, there are only 52. Sure, there's only a 3% chance of hitting that 2-outer on the river, but face it, it will and does happen.

[mattmiller]

I also notice this alot, that is why Ive never invested ANY money into online poker. I just take the "Free $10" offers, play some limit, turn it into more, then play some tournaments, and just build from there.

Just wondering...where do you find these free $10 offers?

[snoogins47]

There was just a huge (relatively, to the size of the stakes) pot I was involved in. AQ to pocket JJ.

Board is 10 8 Q 3, get all my money in, of course, and a 9 comes on the river.

Online poker must be rigged. There's no other explanation.


EDIT: Holy crap, the last two SNGs I played I busted out both in 4th.

One with pocket aces losing to a runner runner straight, and one with top pair top kicker, losing to a flush draw.

Again, if online poker weren't rigged, this couldn't happen. It's just not possible. Not at all. Never happens.