Hacking and Cheating at Online Gambling?

[Blarg]

This guy is using any excuse as a reason to get in touch with him, so he can get some of your money, of course.

This guy really should be banned.

[Çhý££ íÃ]

Ya that sums it up. The only way someone could cheat that way is if they hacked the servers. It's also not some little video game. It's very structured and since it actually means something (money), they are much more serious about security. Don't try and compare them and don't play if you're underage.

Thanks for the great reply cayouche.

In reply to Absolution's post, you were probably just trying to be humerous, so thats ok, but I think my concern was a worthy concern by anyone who puts their money into online gaming.
In response to your "some little video game", I was a professional gamer in 1999, and made a little over $30,000 U.S. gaming online that year. And was only in high school at the time. Not bad for some little video game. :D

And I am 21 years old now. So yes, I am of age.

How did you make money gaming? I've been interested in doing that but don't even know where to get started.

[FirebirdGM]

I'd like to shed a few things onto the subject, if I may.

Firstly, it depends mainly on how the software used for the poker gaming is programmed.

There would be two 'main' ways, one being the smart way, the other being very stupid (Exponentially more for online play):

Firstly, you can have it so ONLY the Community and YOUR pocket cards are stored in your computer member. This safeguards against viewing other people's pocket cards. Essentially, data is transmitted as needed. For example, when your opponent shows his cards, it would send a packet to you containing the card data, and would be used from there.

Secondly, you can pre-store the data. So, when the pockets were dealt, it would store the opponent's pocket cards in your computer's memory for future use. While this would be faster (Not very, but a little), it exposes your program to being vulnerable to a memory access program which would be able to read the cards that your opponents have.

So, while it is possible, it is highly unlikely that any poker site would do it like that.

[JohnnyCache]

I'm pretty sure every room does it the smart way. . . because if you think about it, the speed gained by storing the pockets on the computer of the player would be a bit wasted by the redundancy of doing it for all ten players, and it would be less secure.

[tame_deuces]

Not that I expect anyone to believe it but I have some experience with computer security from both sides of the fence :D And as stated anything can ofcourse be hacked. My guess is that poker sites would use variants of the same security systems used by the banking industry, where the biggest threat previously actually was the hackers convincing the server machine that traffic to your machine was to be sent to the hackers machine, and at the same time removing your machine from the network with a DOS attack. Ofcourse, the situation was remedied faster than you can spell 'fiscal loss' and tight procedures of encrypted communication and secure ways of establishing connections were soon in use. Simply said, the software on your machine is probably just a client that receives information established on the server machine, the server determines the winner and simply sends the information too you that you are the winner. At the same time, your link to the server is most likely protected by pretty harsh encrypting, stopping anyone from possibly stealing it in an easy manner and say for instance, fold your hand, or possibly sniff your networking traffic to find out what hand you are holding. At the same time, I would guess the security systems they run ON and nearby the site are most likely pretty mean, making any attempt to discover/sniff out online clients (aka. you) hard too say the least.

So what does it add up too? It mean's you're biggest fear is collusion and hacker's that work from within (either at your machine or at the site's machine) with the possibility and means to add/discover an exploit to the system. To hack a system like this from the outside may ofcourse be a possibillity, but the knowledge/time/effort that would take would probably be far more fruitful to put too work in other arenas that are easier to crack. If you DO see behaviour you suspect MAY be cheating, just send a mail to the poker site. Sure they may think you are a paranoid nut, and maybe you are, but atleast you're trying to help keep the online world secure which is a damn fine cause

:D :D

[Scott1101]

I can't believe this thread is back again . . .

I think I might start counting the discussions on this site. I swear the breakdown would go something like this:

online poker is rigged - 40%
where can I find freerolls/free games/penny games? - 30%
check out this "bad beat" - 20%
did I play this right? - 10%

[tame_deuces]

I can't believe this thread is back again . . .

I think I might start counting the discussions on this site. I swear the breakdown would go something like this:

online poker is rigged - 40%
where can I find freerolls/free games/penny games? - 30%
check out this "bad beat" - 20%
did I play this right? - 10%

Shrug, don't read it then. As for my note, it was not a note about rigged online poker. It was intended to give my reply to a question about the possibility of cheating by exploits of software in online poker. Which is a very valid question, if nobody cared about security in this matter, then I can promise you that that such exploits would exist. If it's one thing that is true about computer security, it is this: If there is opportunity you get opportunists, so people caring about stuff like this is the first step in enhancing security.

Computer security is NOT a question of something being secure, and then everything is bliss. Computer security is a matter of something being secure, untill someone finds a way to beat it. Because of this it is needed to be vigilant, watchful and always look for flaws in a system, to rid them of it before anyone else finds them. Let your guard down, and you are toast. If for some reason anyone does not buy this, I recommend them to browse through stories of various electronic and hacking related crimes.

That said I play online poker, but it's not like I will sit happily in my chair and think the happy-go-by thoughts that 'stuff like this doesn't happen', when I know that stuff like this MAY happen any day.

[JohnnyCache]

Shrugg - his input on the matter is well intentioned and well thought out. He added new information. Let it slide.

The area of 'cheating' I'm focused on studying right now is shuffle simulation. I'm starting to think it could be done in seven card stud.

There are only so many possible shuffles, and the number of visible cards in seven card stud could narrow it down quite a bit . . .

I don't think "technical" cheating in poker - hacking and the like - is a large-scale problem. I'd be a far better scam, really, to just set up a dummy poker room and run away with the first batch of deposits...

most information crime, oddly enough, is lower-tech then people think. Hackers tend to be kind of . . . abstract. It's easier to teach a con-man a little computer savy then to teach a hacker to be a good con, IMHO.

[tame_deuces]

most information crime, oddly enough, is lower-tech then people think. Hackers tend to be kind of . . . abstract. It's easier to teach a con-man a little computer savy then to teach a hacker to be a good con, IMHO.

Wise words indeed, fear the man on your phone/msn/mail asking you for a piece of your login-information and username for some service!

[JohnnyCache]

Fear the vory-zakone that pay beggers for mail, or the Red Lobster waitress with a coke habit. They're more likely to steal your identity then some kid that just wants to be Kevin Flynn.

[jazriel]

okay, I am NOT an expert, I am NOT a software developer, I am NOT Gus bloody Hansen..... I AM, however, intelligent enough and connected enough to tell you the following:

1. Online poker is not rigged. You just play against absolute morons who call on anything and often catch it.

2. A friend of mine who has a friend... (a bloke who knows a bloke who met a bloke in a pub...) said that it is IMPOSSIBLE to predict the cards and impossible to intercept ANYTHING. The ONLY way you could see your opponents cards is if you were looking over his shoulder (do you think people like playtech didn't think of spyware when they developed the system?) It's almost like having your very own anti-spyware program when you install the software. So, not only do they protect themselves, they protect the player who MAY have spyware. Ask the guys at playtech and they can tell you that. Try it on your friend - install a trojan and see if you can see their cards whilst they play. If you can, then the bastards at playtech have lied yet again!

3. collusion is not rife - do you know how hard it is to collude successfully? And besides, do you think this happens during $5 games? Not a chance. If collusion DOES occur, it would have to be at the almost highest levels (but not quite the highest - it would be akin to counterfeiting $50 instead of $100 because $100 is too high a risk).

4. bad beats - i hate bad beats. they happen a lot on pokerroom or partypoker because of the sheer number of players who are, well... crap!

I used to think this game was sooooo rigged, until I was provided with a few snippets of info from someone who didn't want me posting nasty stuff in forums until i knew all the facts. Still, i would never put money into a site with a large number of players because you will ALWAYS be playing against idiots who call 2 4 os and catch 4 kind etc.

Anyway, that's my pov... BUT, if you want to learn to play serious, hardcore, EXCELLENT poker..... don't try and learn from online games..

[jazriel]

Shrugg - his input on the matter is well intentioned and well thought out. He added new information. Let it slide.

The area of 'cheating' I'm focused on studying right now is shuffle simulation. I'm starting to think it could be done in seven card stud.

There are only so many possible shuffles, and the number of visible cards in seven card stud could narrow it down quite a bit . . .

I don't think "technical" cheating in poker - hacking and the like - is a large-scale problem. I'd be a far better scam, really, to just set up a dummy poker room and run away with the first batch of deposits...

most information crime, oddly enough, is lower-tech then people think. Hackers tend to be kind of . . . abstract. It's easier to teach a con-man a little computer savy then to teach a hacker to be a good con, IMHO.

ABSOLUTELY true.... beware the small sites that have dodgy accreditations. As for identity theft, it's usually really stupid people who click on really obvious emails that get their identity stolen. And hopefully we are all a little too smart for that...

[JohnnyCache]

In this world of mind-bending chaos math and at-home distributed networking, very little is "impossible" - but hacking a poker room would be very difficult.

[screwthepooch]

... Still, i would never put money into a site with a large number of players because you will ALWAYS be playing against idiots who call 2 4 os and catch 4 kind etc.

Pardon my disagreement, but that's exactly who I want to play against! The variability may be higher, but the net results should be with the better player.