ARGH!!! Maybe it's time for a break?

[BobS]

I play mostly online, maybe 2-3 nights during the week and on the week-ends. Real money games, either 1/2 or 2/4 cash games, 5 or 10 sng, or small buy-in multi-tables. I decided to give up on the limit cash games a little while back, to much luck involved and to many "hanger-on's" trying to get those miracle tyurn/river cards.

So, now I'm moslty playing the sng's and multi-table NL tourneys. I play rather tight, and not so aggressive. Recently I* have been reading up a bit on odds and gerneral tourney strategy, both books and this site/other on-line resources.

So far, everything I have read indicates if you have a made hand on the flop, but big to push out the str/flush chasers. if they call, 9/10 times you'll be glad they did because they won't make their hand and you'll steadilly build your bankroll.

Who came up with this strategy? So far, I'M the one loosing 9/10 times to the str/flush that DOES come on the turn/river.

Am I just experiencing a bad run? Who here honestly has built a bankroll by not chasing str/flush draws? It seems every time I play, one of these chasers gets the best of me. Is it time to take a break and re-evaluate?

Please help?

[Absolution]

It depends on how many people are in the game. If it's just you and one other and he calls a pot sized bet on the flop to chase a draw, he's proabably losing money in the long run and you are gaining (as long as you don't give up a huge amount on the river when he makes it and beats you). On multiway pots with weak opponents though, it's harder. If you have the best hand, but 3 others are on a draw to beat you and they all call, you will lose almost every time.

[Dave B]

I am finding this too, that most sit and go players completely ignore any pot odds. If they can make the nut flush, they are going all in or calling an all in w/ A high.

I was bounced yesterday after betting 75TC early on w/ AQ-4 callers. Flop was Qh 10h 4s. Wanting to eliminate any drawing hands I go all in w/ 900 TC toward the 300TC pot. I am called by Ah 6h-he gets his flush on the river.

All I could do was shake my head. I know in the long run I should encourage these calls-since the odds are well in my favor, but it still hurts to get busted.

The day before I was on the other end of the situation, but there was already 3 callers to an all in bet so I called w/ my remaining 500TC(chance to get to 2800). I make the nut flush on the turn and lose to a boat on the river when his 2 pairs hit the boat on the river.


But what are people thinking when they call huge raises w/ str8 or flush draws. Do they see a 36% chance to double up enough incentive to call? Are they weak players who feel that they can get into the money w/ double while they have zero chance playing hand by hand?

[ORGrinder]

I am finding this too, that most sit and go players completely ignore any pot odds.

you mispoke here... i think what you meant to say was

I am finding that VIRTUALLY ALL ONLINE players completely ignore any pot odds.

LOL

additionally i'd like to add that they also ignore hand percentages/odds as well. basically, a ten or better and any other card, and they'll play you to the river 9 times out of 10.

[BobS]

So it's not just me. What do you guys do? Fold top pairs and sets when there is more than one caller and a possible str or flush draw? Just an example from yesterday:

Multitable tourney: I had two J's in the hole, early position, about 1,100 tournament chips left (after loosing 3,000 in two hands to two separate str. draws). I go all in, three, I repeat THREE others called my big pre-flop raise from early position.

dumbass #1 - pair of 7's
dumbass #2 - A-9 unsuited
dumbass #3 - A-K suited (diamonds)

flop comes rag/JD/QD. I go oh boy, a set, this my chance to get back on top. Turn comes a rag, river, of coarse, 10D. Royal friggin flush. Now what in the hell? I guess either way I would have went all in after making the set, but how do people call such big pre-flop raises with weak pairs or just A/K, A/Q, A/anything?

[Absolution]

Hmm, I would probably have called you too with AK suited. AK suited is about even money to beat your jacks just for future reference.

Ace anything is gold to these guys though you're right. Same goes for middle connectors or any overcard with a suited rag (like K5s).

[PuckJunkieNY]

BobS
"Multitable tourney: I had two J's in the hole, early position, about 1,100 tournament chips left (after loosing 3,000 in two hands to two separate str. draws). I go all in, three, I repeat THREE others called my big pre-flop raise from early position."

Where in the Tourney were you in relation to average TC count and what were the blinds up to? I personally would only go all in with JJ preflop if the blinds would eat me up real soon & was on life support. JJ is to easily cracked (usually if you didn't make your set) and if you had others with large stacks and holding AK, AQ, QQ, KK AA you know they will call or go over top. Hell some of them big stacks may even call lower pairs for the stupidity of it and take a gambling chance. In early positon you don't have any indiction of what other might have by their bet placement. If you had bet BB and one of them went all in or bet huge, would you go all in then? I may have tossed 200 just to let them know you got something and to see the flop, but more likely I want to see if my set is made before I toss them all-in. In early postion you don't even have the benefit of stealing alot of blinds anyway.

Your example was hard luck for sure, but who knows how they would have bet if you went all in post flop. I suspect AKd may have called anyway, cuz that's an aweful juicy temptation.

Hey this is just my opinion and I'm no poker god, so take what you want out of it.

GL in future to U.

[BobS]

A little more from my story. Blinds were 200/400 w/50 ante, so it was critical time for me. After thinking about it, I guess the A/K did make the right call against me, and I'm just being a little cry baby. if I hadn't been sucked out on the river the two previous hands, I likely would have seen my ultimate demise to the royal flush differently.

BTW - great forum. I'm glad I found it.

[Absolution]

Ya, JJ is one of those hands that looks better than it is because it's face cards. Treat it like 77 or 99 because that's more realistic. You make second best so often with it and that's why it's dangerous. Even QQ gets me in trouble a lot. They are definitely strong hands, but I think they are overestimated. Late game with a short stack I'd probably play them too though.