Pot Odds - Calculate for all streets or individually?

[mattiasnyc]

I have a couple of questions that I haven't found the answer to yet. If anyone could help me out I'd be grateful:

1) Say we're looking at X outs. There are three numbers available in tables and calculators usually:

On the Flop for the Turn
On the Turn for the River
And on the Flop for the Turn AND River

Question: when do we use the Turn/River probabilities separately and when together?

2) How does this work in hands with more than two players? Do I simply "add up" the bets of the other players with the pot and then compare with my cost of calling as usual?

3) Would I be correct in saying then that it is much more costly to make it unprofitable for a player to call my bet the more players stay in the hand? (Perhaps the answer is obvious)

4) Any good source of strategy for how to adapt then from smaller (cash) games (3-5 players) to larger ones (5-8 players) where more people are playing more hands?

[HalfSugar]

I have a couple of questions that I haven't found the answer to yet. If anyone could help me out I'd be grateful:

1) Say we're looking at X outs. There are three numbers available in tables and calculators usually:

On the Flop for the Turn
On the Turn for the River
And on the Flop for the Turn AND River

Question: when do we use the Turn/River probabilities separately and when together?

You should use the turn AND river one for when you are going all-in on the flop because you are going to see both without paying any more.

Other than that, you should assess whether you will hit on the next card only when deciding whether to call.

Of course, that is not a hard and fast rule but it is the prudent and 'right' way to play.

2) How does this work in hands with more than two players? Do I simply "add up" the bets of the other players with the pot and then compare with my cost of calling as usual?

Yes. If the pot is 1,000 and three players before you put in 200, you are getting 8 to 1 on your call. If that pot were heads up, you would only be getting 6 to 1 on your call despite the dynamics of the hand being the same.

3) Would I be correct in saying then that it is much more costly to make it unprofitable for a player to call my bet the more players stay in the hand? (Perhaps the answer is obvious)

Ultimately yes. The last player to act will pretty much always be priced in with any hand if the players to act before call the initial bet but you cannot worry about that when betting out because you cannot predict the other players' moves.

4) Any good source of strategy for how to adapt then from smaller (cash) games (3-5 players) to larger ones (5-8 players) where more people are playing more hands?

Read as many poker books as you can get your hands on. For pot odds, look at limit poker books such as Winning Low Limit Holdem by Lee Jones which goes into it in great depth. Obviously the limit arena is quite different to the no limit arena but the basic theory is the same.

[mattiasnyc]

Thanks so much for your reply - I really appreciate it!!!

m

[printz0r]

1) Say we're looking at X outs. There are three numbers available in tables and calculators usually:

On the Flop for the Turn
On the Turn for the River
And on the Flop for the Turn AND River

Question: when do we use the Turn/River probabilities separately and when together?

For a 1 card flush draw at 7 opponents, my probabilities state that you have around a 32% chance of winning for turn and river. But if you don't get it on the turn, then it recalculates to only an 18% chance of winning for the river. Nevertheless the 32% chance of winning should still exist. Its a paradox in the program I use.

In my opinion I look at the game as a whole and stick to the 32% chance.

[mattiasnyc]

For a 1 card flush draw at 7 opponents, my probabilities state that you have around a 32% chance of winning for turn and river.

For 1 out? I assume you mean 1 out, right? 1/3 of a chance of hitting is usually 9 outs over two cards, is it not?

But if you don't get it on the turn, then it recalculates to only an 18% chance of winning for the river. Nevertheless the 32% chance of winning should still exist. Its a paradox in the program I use.

In my opinion I look at the game as a whole and stick to the 32% chance.

So how would you then account for that if you were looking at pot-odds?