POT ODDS MADE SIMPLE

[Holdempokerplyr]

I made an article on Pot odds on thepokerforum.com, I thought I would share it with you guys.

What are Pot Odds?
Pot odds is the ratio of the money in the pot compared to the amount of money to call a person's bet. It's a mathematical way to help you figure out to call a bet or not.

Why use Pot Odds?
People usually use pot odds when they are debating whether to call a bet or not. They usually don't use pot odds with every bet they want to make or call. If the pot odds are greater,you should make the call.

To figure out the Pot Odds it's very simple:

For Example:
The pot contains: $36
The bet to call is: $6

Pot to Bet:
36/6 which is simplified to 6/1 or 6 to 1.

Ok so now what?

Odds of Your Hand
We compare the Pot Odds to the odds against your hand. To figure out the odds of your hand you do this.

You have two cards and there are three cards on the board.

Work:
2+3=5
52-5=47

47 not seen cards

Out of those 47 cards you have your outs and the cards that you don't need. So for example if you have 12 outs that leaves with 35 cards you don't need.

So that makes the ratio of cards you don't need to need 35 to 12 or around 3 to 1. You would have to put 35/12 into its simplest form and its around 3/1 not exact (the exact figure is 2.916 repeating). Round that off to 3 to 1. The pot would have to be at least 3 times the size of the bet.

You would not count the cards that the people folded because you don't know what they had. The two cards you hold and the cards that are out on the community board are the only seen cards that you know. That is unless someone shows their cards to you.

Comparing
Now how do I combined these odds to help me? If the pot odds are higher than the odds against making your hand, you should call the bet.

Thank You
-HoldemPokerPlyr

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[pm_french]

[New-ish to this so please bear with me]

When people go on about calculating the pot odds and out odds when deciding wether or not you should call this is not always feasible depending on the type of game you are playing.

If you are playing a tournament game with no further buy ins then to some degree you have to look more at the out odds surely. If you are deciding wether or not to go all in, even if you are getting good value for money, if it doesn't go your way then you are out of the game for good.

Of course, with ring games then over a period of time, these sorts of calculations will make you better off.

Is this a correct way of thinking?

[suitedaces84]

Pot odds are good, but if you can figure your bet odds you will be better off. Bet odds work the same as pot odds, but instead of comparing the pot to the call compare the profit to the call (profit = pot + what you predict will be added to the pot, not including what you add). *Note if your pot odds are good, your bet odds will always be good. Pot odds are often bad in situations when bet odds are good.

Ex. after turn, pot = 6, to call = 2, outs = 8. 2/(6+2*+4**)
*opponents money going into the pot before river
**opponents money in pot after river (I'm assuming he'll bet again and I can raise him)

if 2/(6+2+4) is less than 8/46, then your bet odds are good.
if 2/6 is less than 8/46, then your pot odds are good.

[suitedaces84]

Made a typo in my post, it should read:
Ex. after turn, pot = 6, to call = 2, outs = 8
2/(6+2*+4**)

[v1etr1der]

Hi, I'm a newbie, trying to understand the concept of pot odds. This explanation is very clear, but I do have one question. How do you figure pot odds if someone after you raises? Do you count your first bet in? Does the pot odds change after someone raises? Any help would be much appreciated!

[suitedaces84]

Pot odds count ONLY the money already in the pot. Ignore bets that have been placed but are not yet in the pot, when using pot odds. The fact that there are bets placed that you aren't counting is the flaw of pot odds.

[Dave B]

HUH????

Include your bet and their bets. Just because it isnt in the center of the pot, it still counts. It isnt like they can take the bets back if you call or raise.

In fact, in most cases, I count bets to come to. Early position, raised preflop w/ 6 callers, check check, I bet, all call then a blind check raises. If all those guys behind me are in for 3 bets already, most will call the 4th bet to see another card.

There are no flaws in pot odds (except maybe where chips are limited in a tourney situation and you dont want to risk a tourney for a 36% chance of making a draw). Playing and creating pot odds makes money. Period.

[suitedaces84]

I was always under the impression that bet odds count the bets of the current round that have not yet been put in the middle. But I'm sure Dave B is correct about that, as he is with most everything.

[Sean_in_NJ]

I was always under the impression that bet odds count the bets of the current round that have not yet been put in the middle. But I'm sure Dave B is correct about that, as he is with most everything.

Bet odds are concerned with bets that haven't been placed yet by players left to act behind. It's strictly a guess.

[suitedaces84]

Another think to consider is what will happen if you hit your draw. Let's say you have $40 in front you in a NL ring game. You've got an open-ended nut straight with unpaired rainbow board after the turn. You're heads up against a guy who you're almost positive will not fold his hand, and has a bigger stack than you do. You have 8 cards that will give you the nuts. The pot is $4 he bets $3. This gives you bad pot odds. But calling is this situation is still a good idea, if you hit your draw the potential profit will easily make up for all the times you miss your draw. Pot odds can be flawed even in a ring game.

[suitedaces84]

Bet odds are concerned with bets that haven't been placed yet by players left to act behind. It's strictly a guess.

The terms are vaguely defined on this site, there was some confusion on my end. Sorry.

[Sean_in_NJ]

Pot odds can be flawed even in a ring game.

It's not that the pot odds are flawed, but that you can't use pot odds alone. You also have to use implied odds, which is what you're describing. In your example, you're calling $3 not to win $7 but to win $44, the $7 in the pot plus the remaining $37 you expect to get from your opponent if you hit your draw.

The real problem is implied odds, like bet odds, are only a guess. If you call that $3, hit your draw and your opponent check/folds to your bet, then your call was bad.

FWIW, I don't consider bet odds to be any different from implied odds. They're two names for the same concept: money that has yet to be wagered by your opponent.

[suitedaces84]

Okay, now we can agree on what pot odds, and implied odds are.

My newest interpretation of bet odds (after reviewing the one sentence definition on this site) is completely different from implied odds. Bet odds are used to determine if betting a draw is profitable based on value. Example: you flop a four flush, 6 handed, you predict that 4 will call your bet. That's 4:1. The odds of hitting your flush 2:1, bet for value in this case due to bet odds. You miss your flush on the turn, and predict that 2 will call your bet. Your bet odds are now 2:1, your odds of hitting the flush drop to 4:1, do not bet for value here.

[Sean_in_NJ]

Okay, now we can agree on what pot odds, and implied odds are.

My newest interpretation of bet odds (after reviewing the one sentence definition on this site) is completely different from implied odds. Bet odds are used to determine if betting a draw is profitable based on value. Example: you flop a four flush, 6 handed, you predict that 4 will call your bet. That's 4:1. The odds of hitting your flush 2:1, bet for value in this case due to bet odds. You miss your flush on the turn, and predict that 2 will call your bet. Your bet odds are now 2:1, your odds of hitting the flush drop to 4:1, do not bet for value here.

Then we have to figure out how to modify those odds to account for the possibility the bet can win you the pot without a call, or that you might already have the best hand.

But, point taken. I think we've got all the bases covered now. :D