Preflop Play in PLO

[xDiamond_CutteRx]

This a split from our PLO study group, because the topic of open-limping versus raising came up, and I thought we should start a thread specifically addressing that topic.

So, here's the way I see it:

Characteristics of Limping
1. It keeps the pot smaller.
2. It encourages multi-way action or "limp cascades."
3. It has no fold equity.
4. It generally does not represent a super strong hand.

Characteristics of Raising
1. It makes the pot larger.
2. It discourages multi-way action and usually results in Heads-up or 3-way pots, but occasionally larger ones.
3. It has fold equity.
4. It represents more strength than limping.

What can we extrapolate from that?

For one thing, open limping when there are still a large number of players behind you might not be so bad, because you usually want to play smaller pots out of position, and bigger pots in position. For another, if you have a hand that plays well multi-way (rundowns and 3-straight with a suited Ace, for example), you do not lose much equity by limping versus raising. On the negative side, limping gives you no chance to take the blinds preflop, and may leave you out of position in a multiway pot when others limp behind. Also, it doesn't show much strength, which could be an advantage or disadvantage. It makes it difficult to take the initiative, but it may conceal a high set when you limp with a hand like AA/KK and hit--players generally will not put you on a flopped set of Kings or Aces when you either limp or just call an opening raise.

Raising, on the other hand has its advantages. It might buy you position, it lets you control the pot size and make it larger or smaller in position, and it gives you both fold equity and post-flop initiative. What are the downsides to raising? If someone calls behind you in position, it can be tough to play post flop if you miss. Furthermore, in more aggressive games, there is always the risk of getting 3-bet. This scenario isn't as scary in PLO as it is in Hold'em, since usually there is still a lot of play post flop, and preflop hands run relatively close in value.

In my own opinion, I think there is nothing wrong with open-limping from EP if you do not want to play a big pot right away, or don't mind multiway action. Playing a lot in 6-max games, I find myself open-limping from the first two positions with a lot of hands I choose to play. However, when folded to me in the CO or button, I tend to raise any hand I want to play. It never hurts to take the blinds, and it lets me play bigger pots when I have position.

There is a ton more to say, but I want to let others comment before we get in too deep.

[Jernej Zorec]

altho i'm not sure how much this applies to low stakes,
limping some mariginal hands from ep also blances our game and enables us to limp rr some of our stronger hands, and not just AAxx

[crack]

Very good summing up of both sides of the coin DC.

Basically just like at NLH it all depends what I am going to do on various factors. Whatever way I do tend to lean on playing (Generally I prefer limping a lot of hands) I will also mix it up a bit for game theory reasons.

[nicthestick]

im still trying to learn to play plo up to the standard that I think that I play holdem. I'm not sure what hand warrant a preflop raise in ep in a 8/b game, and what hands are better to limp with. I "feel better" limping with a lot of hands in plo 8/b because I think i have a fairly good idea of how to play post flop. That being said, The more info I can get, the better.

[crack]

This thread was actually about PLO high, but to answer your question..... I don't raise that much in EP in plo8. Position is super important in this game and I am not looking to build a pot in the small/medium stakes games and then play that pot OOP.

Obviously there are hands that you may want to build, like A2 and two more wheel cards (especially suited A) and hands like AA2*, but for me that's probably about it. It's when you get to MP and LP where you can start to open up a bit more.

[nicthestick]

sorry for the thead jack..

[clarky]

When the preflop comes... Your option here is to raise the high-pair hands your play will become very easy to exploit or raise to give your opponents with a variety of hands a cheap shot to out-flop you.

[ninconvert]

The latest post on PLOS went into this somewhat although I'm not too convinced that playing too passive is the right thing to do.

When playing No Limit Hold ‘Em you can often immediately identify weak players by certain passive or weak things they do. In PLO, however, seeing somebody do these same things might not give you quite as much information, in fact they could well be crushing the games with a much more passive style than you could get away with in NLHE.

Personally I've found that playing passive-ish in position is fine but it doesn't work OOP at all. I much prefer to 3bet or fold pre-flop or lead out rather than c/c down.

As to limping pre-flop, I think it's fine to do in aggressive games especially in early position but in a normal game I think you lose a lot of value in not open raising like you would in NLHE.