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Should i be folding this AK pf?

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23 posts • Page 2 of 2 • 1, 2

Re: Should i be folding this AK pf?

Postby Northern Hillbilly » Wed Jan 20, 2010 10:06 am GMT

Ensano wrote:problem is you can NEVER put someone on a specific hand...

if you're playing and you tend to put people on specific hands PF then you're a bad player that is too full of yourself and need a reality check..
(omage to supa :cry: )...


you should be assigning ranges...

i thinks villians range here is QQ+ maybe AK...

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 41.904% 22.62% 19.28% 8133909 6934104.00 { AsKs }
Hand 1: 58.096% 38.81% 19.28% 13956267 6934104.00 { QQ+, AKs, AKo }


if you call final pot will be 5670

equity is 2375 so calling 2410 to win 2375 = no good...

even if you add in JJ you get 2427 so still a no go since you have no need to take a risk just yet...



Whether you should put someone on a hand or not was not the question here. If you have put someone on a hand better then yours fold is usually the only option there is. Depending on chip stack game type and how deep in tournament you are. If I was chip leader and i had AK and put someone on middle pocket pair deep in a tournament and it would cost me 15% of my chips to call I am going to call And take the flip . If situation was reversed i would probably do the

I disagree though on not putting people on hands. If you have been paying attention to how people are playing you can put them on a hand . You may not be right every time but laying down a winning hand is definitely better then pissing all your chips away on a losing hand. poker is a post flop game not a pre flop As far as AK I will rarely go all in wth AK pre flop

I play with the same group of people every week and there is 2 players I can put on a hand with 90% accuracy pre flop just on how they bet . 1 plays tight the other plays stupid and he checks pocket pairs every time and big raises on every ace the lower the kicker the bigger the bet . (I love the guy he is good for 50 bucks every week )
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Re: Should i be folding this AK pf?

Postby Felix » Thu Jan 21, 2010 11:07 pm GMT

Putting someone one, and only one specific hand is a recipe for disaster. Putting someone on a range can give you a better shot at figuring out your equity.

I'm snap calling this 90% of the time, even against nitty players. You're flipping vs. a lot of hands (Queens, Jacks, other pairs), you're a favorite against weaker aces, 3-1 if he has Kings, and 5-1 if he's holding aces. Unless you think you can accurately put his range on just KK-AA, this is a profitable call.

Edit: It's apparently been too long and I can't write odds correctly.
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Re: Should i be folding this AK pf?

Postby Northern Hillbilly » Sat Jan 23, 2010 10:14 am GMT

I believe it was Doyle Brunson who said never go all in pre-flop with less then a pair of ladies.

It just boils down to if you want to flip for all your chips or play poker. I prefer poker to gambling I have shitty luck
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Re: Should i be folding this AK pf?

Postby Felix » Sat Jan 23, 2010 6:17 pm GMT

In a cash game, depending on your opponent, possibly.

In a tournament setting, where you're frequently bleeding chips and need to make moves to survive, this is a snap call almost all of the time. As has been stated before, if you wait your entire tournament for a lock, or Queens or better, you're going to be blinded out long before your perfect hand comes. Stating that a call with AK is "just a flip" isn't thinking out your opponent's hand range, the current blind structure, or your M. It's making a terrible assumption and trying to put your opponent on one specific hand.

Edit - Can't spell.
Last edited by Felix on Sat Jan 23, 2010 10:20 pm GMT, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Should i be folding this AK pf?

Postby crack » Sat Jan 23, 2010 7:02 pm GMT

Northern Hillbilly wrote:I believe it was Doyle Brunson who said never go all in pre-flop with less then a pair of ladies.

It just boils down to if you want to flip for all your chips or play poker. I prefer poker to gambling I have shitty luck


Doyle also said you either win a small pot with Aces or lose a big one.
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Re: Should i be folding this AK pf?

Postby HalfSugar » Sat Jan 23, 2010 8:12 pm GMT

Northern Hillbilly wrote:It just boils down to if you want to flip for all your chips or play poker. I prefer poker to gambling I have shitty luck

That's a terrible way to look at it. There's no such thing as shitty luck, just short run situations.
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Re: Should i be folding this AK pf?

Postby Jernej Zorec » Sun Jan 24, 2010 6:13 pm GMT

ez snap call against all but the nittiest players , which well i doubt there are any in these, and besides just coz u seen him show those 3 hands doesnt mean its his exact range, and if he shoves AK and QQ hes not going to just magically fold or just flat with JJ TT or AQs imo
so with the dead money in the pot snap call, and if u lose just start up a new one
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Re: Should i be folding this AK pf?

Postby Ensano » Thu Jan 28, 2010 9:14 pm GMT

even TT+ AQ+

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 51.649% 42.01% 09.64% 32370063 7427680.50 { AsKs }
Hand 1: 48.351% 38.71% 09.64% 29828256 7427680.50 { TT+, AQs+, AQo+ }


so .51649 * 5670 = 2928.50

so call 2410 to win 2928.5 = + 518.50

but you have to ask yourself do you really need to take this risk?

and honestly I don't believe AQ or TT is in this range and I have my doubts about JJ
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