Snake Bit

[SDPokerDude]

Game = 8 players, 2/3 nl texas cash

I am in seat 4 (UTG+1) with a starting stack of 190

I limp with KQ off
seat 5 raises to 18 (stack of approx 400) (not a wild bet in this room)
SB calls (stack of approx 150)
I call

Board comes 6c 8c Kd (I have no clubs)

1 checks
I check (I think this is a mistake)
5 bets 35
1 folds
I raise to 80
5 calls

Turn comes 4s

I am pretty sure I am beat at this point, but only have 90 facing a pot of approx 200 (better than 4-1).

I check
5 all in

I am only worried about AK and AA (I have a strong feel he does not have a set) but he could have QQ or JJ as well, and is betting that I do not have the K.

I call (I know, I know, but this is a VERY wild room, and I have a bit of an image of not calling raises) and he flips AK.

Is there any way I could have gotten away from the hand? I figure the check-raise was a mistake. Only hand that can call is a hand that has me beat (would KJ or worse raise pre-flop?), and I am committing myself. If I bet instead and he smooth calls me, I am all in on the turn. If he re-raises, I am pretty sure I can let go. But if I check-call, MAYBE I can get away as he will probably still push on the turn to chase the flush (which I MIGHT be able to lay down).

In this room, there is no way you can lay down KQ pre-flop with that bet. If I raise pre-flop, MAYBE I can get away when he comes back at me, but then I am just bluffing, so why bother? I don't really like raising from early with KQ, but I am OK calling (bad strategy, maybe).

[Felting]

here's how you get away from that hand.

Fold Preflop.

Hands such as KQ, KJ, KT, AT look nice, but they just don't hold up well out of position. I would have much preferred you raise if you are going to enter the pot from that position. That would have at least helped us define if anyone else had a quality hand. Disregarding position is a sure negative EV.

[miaowmiaowchowface]

yipes, cant be limping pre broseph

[BeerWench13]

While I usually agree with Felting, I must say that I don't have a problem with the limp preflop. You're out of position, so I think you can see if you can get in cheaply. However, I would've folded to the raise. It was worth a BB, not 6BB.

Even if I called the preflop raise, I'm firing a bet at the pot on the flop with top pair. I really don't like the check/raise here. If you bet, you will not only get a better idea of what the villain has, but you will also set the amount of the bet which will help you control the size of the pot.

Disclaimer: It's been a long time since I've played a cash game since I've been focusing on my tournament play for the last year or so.

[Golden Holden]

Your preflop play is dangerously close to negative EV, I think.

KQ in early position is one of those hands that will cost you quite a bit when you're up against AK or AQ from someone with position on you. This hand illustrates the nightmare scenario quite well. You limp, someone raises, you feel married to the hand and call, and then hit to pair. Now how do you play the hand? Your stacks are medium-sized, so you can't feel too good about stacking off in this spot.

Calling a 6x raise after a smooth call in front of you, while out of position yourself, is probably going to get you into a lot of trouble in the long run.

You could theoretically play your KQ as a limp, fold or raise preflop. I would usually take the fold and limp options, mixing in very few raises for balance. I would almost certainly fold to the preflop raise.

Also, when you check on the turn and your opponent goes all-in, do you call? If you only check-call in this spot, you are giving your opponent a great deal of positional advantage against you. They can go all in themselves (as in the example) when they have a good hand, and they can check it back when they are drawing or weak (and could even come back with a river bluff if you check again)

If you were willing to call the turn all in, you should consider making the all-in bet yourself in this spot. This way you gain when opponent has a lesser pair, a draw, etc, but you lose just as much when you are wrong (since you would have called the all-in bet anyways).

But typically, save yourself the trouble of being in these spots and fold to the raise preflop.

[HalfSugar]

Calling a 6x raise after a smooth call in front of you, while out of position yourself, is probably going to get you into a lot of trouble in the long run.

The word 'probably' there is grossly under-rep'd

[miaowmiaowchowface]

limping here is just not ok. In a typical live 2/3 game I would definitely raise, too many retards at the table not to. postflop is a disaster