Starting to be curious of UB...

[Absolution]

That's for sure. Online is good for learning patience though (something I don't have much of). You really have to play a tight game and have to deal with so many bad beats and calling stations. I know these loose players are good for beating on in the long run, but it still hurts to lose to their ridiculous river chasing. Like I said before, you may have the odds, but they have numbers.

I haven't played in real life so I'm not sure, but I think it would require much more strategy and a good player could really shine in that environment. People online can generally only be read by their bets and that's assuming you find someone at least average. The rest really have no method to their madness.

[nicthestick]

I find online play ideal for making me diciplined. I lay down hand after hand after hand, waiting for the winners. In a live game, I only get to play about 4 to 6 hand an hour, but due to the speed of online play, my number of hands per hour is up from that. I have learned to wait, and that has made all the difference.

[wEbMaStEr]

patience is very important.

altho there are a few other factors...
i.e. how often do you play live with 9 ppl at the table?
with that many in you are almost gaurenteeing the board will make a hand for someone.

another factor is the way YOU play your cards, i know some people will call almost anything on a draw, but these people tend to suck. If you make a hand on the flop and allow someone to limp in on a draw then you have no-one to blame. yes sometimes they will call anyways, but in the main you will profit from it.
remember, even if they have 9 outs or so ..... make them pay to get them, cos you have all the rest.

Also you should be aware of the other players and how they play when you aren't in a hand, watch them, learn from them, know if they will call a large raise on the draw etc.

also if you truly believe that limping to the river is rewarded most times ....... try it for a while and see how far it gets you

[iloveholdem]

you guys have made interesting points. But to be back on subject I dont think anyone would rather put $10,000 online rather than doing it at a casino with real players and more comfortable etc. Online is good and all but I just find a big differerence in between.

[Absolution]

It's more difficult to watch how people play online. People come and go from tables all the time. You rarely play the same person for very long. Sure, you might get to know a few of the regulars and get to know their style, but if they realize people are on to them they can just create a new account. The anonymity of the internet, got to love it.

Or, is it better to have people think they know your style. If you know what they believe you have based on your bets, you could use this to your advantage. You might exploit this in the long term at a casino, but probably not much online.

Play money in general is a waste of time. You can learn the mechanics and that's about it. Well, okay, you can learn when to recognize the nuts as well. The people in those games are clueless. They call with any top pair and will get in any pot if they have at least a face card and a rag. They know nothing of position and don't care where you raise it. Semi-bluff, check-raise, bluff? Forget it, they don't even recognize when it happens. You can check-raise from early position and they will call on marginal hands (gut shot draws). This is all good if you have a monster hand, but you can't always sit around waiting for monsters in a tournament setting where the blinds rise. You still have a higher win percentage than them for sure, but they will try their hardest to turn it into a roll of the dice - pure chance. The multi-table freerolls aren't as bad. Near the end you generally are up against good players, but there are always those few left that built their bankrolls early on pure luck.

[Wada]

Started to play for real money but only .01/.02 just to have the feeling of knowing its my money and other's money as well.

I know its only penny blinds - but look at this crap.


Note - Im playing as "Yaada"


Hand #1188797-703 at Beaconsfield ($.01/$.02 Hold'em)
Powered by UltimateBet
Started at 11/Mar/04 12:20:14

Magicrat1960 is at seat 2 with $.98.
Zatnicatel is at seat 3 with $1.84.
Packerfox is at seat 5 with $.61 (sitting out).
Yaada is at seat 6 with $.80.
skip9546 is at seat 7 with $1.01.
toughtoread is at seat 8 with $.53.
TardBlossom is at seat 9 with $1.36.
The button is at seat 9.

Magicrat1960 posts the small blind of $.01.
Zatnicatel posts the big blind of $.01.

Magicrat1960: -- --
Zatnicatel: -- --
Yaada: Js Tc
skip9546: -- --
toughtoread: -- --
TardBlossom: -- --

Pre-flop:

Yaada calls. skip9546 folds. toughtoread calls.
TardBlossom calls. Magicrat1960 checks. Zatnicatel
checks.

Flop (board: Qh Kh 9h):

Magicrat1960 checks. Zatnicatel checks. Yaada bets
$.01. toughtoread raises to $.02. TardBlossom
calls. Magicrat1960 folds. Zatnicatel folds.
Yaada re-raises to $.03. toughtoread re-raises to
$.04. TardBlossom calls. Yaada calls.

Turn (board: Qh Kh 9h 5c):

Yaada bets $.02. toughtoread raises to $.04.
TardBlossom re-raises to $.06. Yaada re-raises to
$.08. toughtoread calls. TardBlossom calls.

River (board: Qh Kh 9h 5c 8h):

Yaada bets $.02. toughtoread raises to $.04.
TardBlossom folds. Yaada re-raises to $.06.
toughtoread re-raises to $.08. Yaada calls.



Showdown:

toughtoread shows 8d Jh.
toughtoread has Jh Qh Kh 9h 8h: flush, king high.
Yaada mucks cards.
(Yaada has Js Tc.)


Hand #1188797-703 Summary:

No rake is taken for this hand.
toughtoread wins $.57 with flush, king high.
----------------------------------------------------------------


I flop a straight and this guy raises and calls me all the way to the river to get his heart. He didnt have shit until the river.

Now looking at this...unless Im missing something I dont think I did anything wrong but play it right. Am I missing something here? geez

[Sente]

You played the flop and turn correctly. With 4 to a flush and a flush draw, he has odds to call. He shouldn't have been raising on the flop or on the turn. Either he's a maniac, a bad player or trying to bluff a made flush. You did the right thing by re-raising in both instances.

On river, you must check and call and save yourself 3 big beats. With 4 hearts on the board, you should give him credit for a flush.

Bad play is universal. Any lower limit poker is going to be full of bad play. Just get used to the bad beats and keep betting strong and getting your money in the pot when you are favorite. In the long run, you'll be paid off.

[iloveholdem]

That is kinda what happeened to me, just a bunch of crap that they flop out.

Dont steam, just know dont depoist too much into UB.

[Wada]

What do you mean by that? dont play at UB as much and play elsewhere?

[iloveholdem]

Dont get me wrong Online Poker is great and all, but I wouldnt be ready to start playing like its a home casino.

Try going to home games I promise you wont find as near as bad players, odd card helping, etc there rather online.

[Sundance]

You were playing for pennies.. You might as well have been playing for the 'fun money' . Of course a guy is going to call with a four to the flush and with pennies. If he raises, not such a good move but he wants the pot bigger when/if he does hit the nuts. This kind of stuff happens at all sites if you play micro limits or 'fun money', it is not just at UB. Get some cash and play higher limits 4/8 or better and the play is much more normal.. At that level a raise will mean something. I think it is ridiculous that you are blaming the poker site for a tough beat or draw out when you are playing micro limits or 'fun money'.. LMAO...

Sorry if I am overly critical, but chasers will win their fair share of the pots.

[Ninja]

I would suggest a .01/.02 Blinds micro-limit No Limit game at UltimateBet...then, the average pot is around 40 cents, and you can raise it up to your $$ (Max buy-in = $2). I find that people are a little tighter around there. If you bet 4 cents, who cares. You could buy a swedish fish with that much. Like he said, it's practically funny money.

[Wada]

Well I didnt mean to come across as complaining about it. I didnt care either about calling with pennies to the river. It was more of the principle of the matter about people calling all the way to river.

Yea I agree at a 4/8 people are less likely to call to the river. But come on, if you get some millionaire playing 4/8 hes gonna call you to the river to. Whats $8 to him - nothing. And it could go the other way - you could get a millionaire who is a tight ass, doesnt tip for shit when being served a $40 plate of food, and would actually care about putting out a $8 bet. Hes rich because hes tight with his money.

Some people do not have a value attached to their money. I dont think it matters really what table you play at whether high or low - your still going to get someone in there that just doesnt care about throwing $100 worth of raises out on the table in 10/20 game. Same with with lower limit. It boils down to the individual your are playing against.

I just remembered iloveholdem's post about the river card and when this hand happened to me - thought I would just post it to add it to his comment on the river.

[PuckJunkieNY]

I enjoy all the comments made in the last several posts, many valid points are made. I play Micro money (.01/.02 to .25/.50) at UB NL & lower buy-in tourneys. I cosider it cheap entertainment, but play seriously to win. I like the freedom of playing anytime that online poker offers. Granted home games and the rare (for me) casino venture is a much better all around experience, but I still enjoy online for what is offers.

As far as the mini-micro NL go (.01/.02)...I find it damn near impossible to not at least 3x-5x your buy in at a 2 hour + sitting. I will usually play a mini-micro or two and a .15/.25 or .25/.50 at same time. If you play smart and pick your hand you cannot loose in the long run. There are soooo many idiots out there who just hand it over to you again, and again and again. Hell these penny games fund all my $5 SNG's. Wada mentioned some people value $ diffferntly, and that is so true, if they don't value chump change I am more than happy to take it from them and use it to make more on tourney's or higher limit tables. I'm a value every penny I earn and refuse to recklessly give any small amount away. Yes, play is gernerally recklessly loose much of the time and you will lose to some people on draw outs. If you can fold good hands without blinking and pick your battles I guarentee you will win. I can't tell you how many times I go in with $1 and leave with $4-$12. Small time yes, but fun and allows for playing other games.