Too Many Pre-Flop Raises?

[markusgc]

I've been coming up on this situation a little bit lately. Maybe y'all can give me your takes on it.

I'll raise pre-flop with a premium hand. Once in a while, a just sub-premium (K-9 suited, for instance). Anyway, how about when you get great hole cards a few hands in a row?

Personally, I start thinking that people are getting sick of my raises (maybe because I get fed up with them by others who ALWAYS pre-flop raise). Does it lessen the value of my cards? Will people start calling with marginal hands?

Also, how about raises in the blinds? I won't often raise in the big blind. Small blind yeah.

Still refining things, so any insight would be appreciated.

[Muck]

I think I’d describe K9s as less than just sub-premium even with position :\

But regardless of that, when you get a cluster for raising hands that get mucked each time you will build an image. This isn’t always a bad thing since it can induce an opponent to make an unwise re-raise into your monster to try and keep you honest.

As for when to raise from the blinds there's not much to say since it’s very dependent on the situation. The only pointer I could give is to bare in mind you will have a poor position post flop.

I’m also curious so to what's better about a raise from the SB compare to a BB.

[markusgc]

I’m also curious so to what's better about a raise from the SB compare to a BB.

Not exactly sure why. I guess it doesn't seem so greedy. I also read on Caro's page that he advises against raising in the big blind.

Finally, there is my ignorance factor. Hence the public plea for help.

I'll raise with that K/9 if I haven't played in a while, just to make it a little stronger. If another king comes out, it's usually assumed that I have a better kicker than a 9 because I raised.

But, if I didn't want to know more, I wouldn't have asked.

Thanks!

[TheSalche]

bad idea to raise from SB with anything except top 5 hands, and thats a little stretchy

reason is, you're out of position, and if you have a hand like KQ,AJ,KJ,JQ, etc, you're going to miss the flop a lot, and even when you do hit it, you may be against somebody with a better hand than you, but they're in position to extract more chips from you

ideally you even limp with AK or AQ, unless there are 3 or 4 limpers

concerning preflop raises multiple hands, say you go on a rush like AQ, AK, KK ... raise more on that last one, because people are more likely to call you with worse hands since you've been raising so much

[supafrey]

yeah use multi raises to your advantage, instead of as a hinderance.

Don't even DARE raising a third time in a row on any poker table (400nl or less, I guess) except with a nice pocket pair or AK, perhaps. They will not respect continuation bets from you (no way you have anything good 3 times in a row...)

[Muck]

I’m also curious so to what's better about a raise from the SB compare to a BB.

Not exactly sure why. I guess it doesn't seem so greedy. I also read on Caro's page that he advises against raising in the big blind.

I’m guess he advises against raising from the BB and just as much, if not more, from the SB.

Anyway. The BB has a fractional position advantage over the SB, which increase for every player who folds. If it folds around to the SB this is illustrated very well (it’s a similar situation to heads up play).
If the SB just calls an aggressive player on the BB will often raise. The BB knows the SB might be limping just because the odds are good even though their cards are poor.
Many good players advise that, when heads up from the SB, a raise or fold is best since a call with usually just result in being raised and having to fold 2 bets rather than 1. Even if the SB calls the raise the BB still has position on the flop.

[Skribbles]

Here is a perfect example of how raising consecutive hands can be adventageous (sp?). In hand 3 the guy was sick of my raises and went on tilt. Every single play he made was just awful because of the previous 2 hands.

Hand 1:

100 NL Texas Hold'em - Tuesday, November 29, 16:10:34 EDT 2005
Table Table 64879 (No DP) (Real Money)
Seat 10 is the button
Total number of players : 9
Seat 2: Dave_Babych8 ( $103.20 )
Seat 3: AISIM ( $51.13 )
Seat 4: linds2223 ( $95.65 )
Seat 5: thormentor ( $121.80 )
Seat 6: nolemannel1 ( $133.10 )
Seat 7: mrme_thane ( $103.45 )
Seat 8: mediaguy555 ( $206.85 )
Seat 9: RichG28 ( $125.50 )
Seat 10: Adrian20XX ( $99.50 )
Dave_Babych8 posts small blind [$0.50].
AISIM posts big blind [$1].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Dave_Babych8 [ 8h 7s ]
>You have options at Table 65809 Table!.
linds2223 folds.
thormentor calls [$1].
nolemannel1 calls [$1].
mrme_thane folds.
mediaguy555 folds.
RichG28 folds.
Adrian20XX folds.
Dave_Babych8 calls [$0.50].
>You have options at Table 65992 Table!.
AISIM checks.
** Dealing Flop ** [ 6s, Qh, 5s ]
Dave_Babych8 checks.
AISIM checks.
thormentor bets [$4].
nolemannel1 calls [$4].
Dave_Babych8 calls [$4].
AISIM folds.
** Dealing Turn ** [ 4d ]
Dave_Babych8 checks.
thormentor bets [$15].
nolemannel1 calls [$15].
>You have options at Table 65009 Table!.
Dave_Babych8 raises [$50].
thormentor folds.
>You have options at Table 65809 Table!.
nolemannel1 did not respond in time.
nolemannel1 folds.
Dave_Babych8 does not show cards.
Dave_Babych8 wins $93



Hand 2:

$100 NL Texas Hold'em - Tuesday, November 29, 16:12:10 EDT 2005
Table Table 64879 (No DP) (Real Money)
Seat 2 is the button
Total number of players : 9
Seat 2: Dave_Babych8 ( $141.20 )
Seat 3: AISIM ( $50.13 )
Seat 4: linds2223 ( $95.65 )
Seat 5: thormentor ( $101.80 )
Seat 6: nolemannel1 ( $113.10 )
Seat 7: mrme_thane ( $103.45 )
Seat 8: mediaguy555 ( $206.85 )
Seat 9: RichG28 ( $125.50 )
Seat 10: Adrian20XX ( $99.50 )
AISIM posts small blind [$0.50].
linds2223 posts big blind [$1].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Dave_Babych8 [ Ad Ac ]
>You have options at Table 65809 Table!.
thormentor calls [$1].
mrme_thane calls [$1].
mediaguy555 raises [$6].
RichG28 folds.
Adrian20XX folds.
Dave_Babych8 raises [$15].
AISIM folds.
linds2223 folds.
thormentor calls [$14].
mrme_thane folds.
mediaguy555 folds.
** Dealing Flop ** [ 2c, Qc, Td ]
thormentor checks.
Dave_Babych8 bets [$35].
thormentor folds.
Dave_Babych8 does not show cards.
Dave_Babych8 wins $71.60



Hand 3:


$100 NL Texas Hold'em - Tuesday, November 29, 16:12:57 EDT 2005
Table Table 64879 (No DP) (Real Money)
Seat 3 is the button
Total number of players : 9
Seat 2: Dave_Babych8 ( $162.80 )
Seat 3: AISIM ( $49.63 )
Seat 4: linds2223 ( $94.65 )
Seat 5: thormentor ( $86.80 )
Seat 6: nolemannel1 ( $113.10 )
Seat 7: mrme_thane ( $102.45 )
Seat 8: mediaguy555 ( $200.85 )
Seat 9: RichG28 ( $125.50 )
Seat 10: Adrian20XX ( $99.50 )
linds2223 posts small blind [$0.50].
thormentor posts big blind [$1].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Dave_Babych8 [ Qs Qd ]
nolemannel1 folds.
mrme_thane folds.
mediaguy555 folds.
RichG28 folds.
>You have options at Table 65009 Table!.
Adrian20XX folds.
smooothymon has joined the table.
Dave_Babych8 raises [$4].
AISIM folds.
linds2223 folds.
>You have options at Table 65009 Table!.
thormentor calls [$3].
** Dealing Flop ** [ Td, 3s, 4h ]
thormentor checks.
Dave_Babych8 bets [$6].
thormentor calls [$6].
** Dealing Turn ** [ 9c ]
thormentor checks.
Dave_Babych8 bets [$15].
>You have options at Table 65009 Table!.
thormentor raises [$45].
Dave_Babych8 raises [$60].
>You have options at Table 65009 Table!.
thormentor is all-In.
Dave_Babych8 calls [$1.80].
** Dealing River ** [ Jh ]
Dave_Babych8 shows [ Qs, Qd ] a pair of queens.
thormentor doesn't show [ 6s, 9d ] a pair of nines.
Dave_Babych8 wins $171.10 from the main pot with a pair of queens.

[markusgc]

thanks for the advice and the explanations to go with it. it really helped.

mark

[lwestatbus]

This was a really interesting question. Someday I hope to have enough premium hands to have to make this decision.

[markusgc]

This was a really interesting question. Someday I hope to have enough premium hands to have to make this decision.

Dare to dream. It could happen to you!

Anyway, I've been playing Speed Sit n Go's lately and I come up on this often enough to ask...

Lot of chips in the pot, all limpers. Me in blind (doesn't matter much, small or big - well maybe it does, and I'm sure you can explain why) w/KK, or even QQ. Should I put a play on to get all them chips and hope someone w/A 10 doesn't hit on the flop?

I'd probably complete/check AA and try to push on the flop, especially if it was rags, but you know how 2 suited cards will fire up the masses. But maybe not, 'cause I'd feel pretty good about getting all my chips in with that hand. Stack size comes into play here too. If I had a big stack, then it's easier to push and harder for them to call. If I have small to medium, it's easier for them to call, but that's to my advantage as well, isn't it?

In these speed games, those chips in my stack and out of theirs is very important - heck in any game - but the blinds move fast and add up quick.

And before lwestatbus complains, it DOES come up for me almost every SnG. If it shouldn't, any advice on preventing it would be appreciated.

[arras]

I'd probably complete/check AA and try to push on the flop, especially if it was rags, but you know how 2 suited cards will fire up the masses.

Bad line with aces! Raise preflop, don't give somebody with rags a chance to hit their two pair.

[tame_deuces]

It's fun when you raise for the 4th time in a row and you just know the little angry guy in the corner is going to push with any two.

[Skribbles]

I'd probably complete/check AA and try to push on the flop, especially if it was rags, but you know how 2 suited cards will fire up the masses.

Don't like this line at all.

[markusgc]

Bad line with aces! Raise preflop, don't give somebody with rags a chance to hit their two pair.

That's why I ask. Anyway, would you put 'em all in?

[Skribbles]

Bad line with aces! Raise preflop, don't give somebody with rags a chance to hit their two pair.

That's why I ask. Anyway, would you put 'em all in?

First off, why would you give someone a change to hit BEFORE you push in?

Second, you don't have to automatically push pre-flop. If you think someone will call, then yes, push. Lots of times a push like this from the blinds looks like a steal and someone will call you out of spite.

Third, throw out a standard raise of 4xBB + 1 BB for each limper. If you get a couple callers, then push the flop or check/raise all-in on the flop. The raise all depends on the size of the blinds relative to stack size. If the blinds are 10/15 and everyone is sitting w/ 3000 chips, then you'd want to put out a raise of 200+ chips.


And finally, slowplaying AA against a full table is horrible. It may pay off sometimes but not as often as it should. If you are in a pot heads up, ie. you are in the BB, guy from MP raises and it folds to you.