tricky complex-ish spot superdeep

[miaowmiaowchowface]

Seat 2: ($2060 in chips)
Seat 3: ($2000 in chips)
Seat 4: V ($7378 in chips)
Seat 6: H ($10762 in chips)
H: posts small blind $10
]: posts big blind $20
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to H [5d Ad]
: folds
V: raises $40 to $60
H: raises $200 to $260
: folds
V: calls $200
*** FLOP *** [3s 8d 2d]
H: checks
V: bets $299
H: raises $651 to $950
V: raises $1049 to $1999


We don't have much history today, except he knows I'm relatively aggro. I've seen this guy as pretty nitty really, but I've heard he's a very good player, and apparently used to be an insane lagtard, but has nitted up recently. This may be because I'm pretty sure his account is shared, but he's the best user on it.

anyway... thoughts here are whether to shove this for ~5 more or call his small bet and bet out on a diamond or wheel. I think at the moment his range is basically polarized to sets/air and occassionally overplaying AA KK etc. obv. he's never folding a set but even then we have good equity.

thoughts??? if any

[gumbie]

chk call teh flop u turnip. oh and don't 3 bet preflop.

[xDiamond_CutteRx]

chk call teh flop u turnip. oh and don't 3 bet preflop.

Yeah I like this line a lot better.

Pretty sure at this point thought that push > fold even with little to no fold equity and 12 outs (I am not counting an Ace, because I doubt that helps unless he is overplaying 99/TT) because of the dead money in the pot.

[kingetje]

i would like this checkraise on the flop if you were 100BBs deep, but in this spot i dont like it at all.

probably just Cbet and go from there.


and the 3bet preflop.. eh, i dont really mind it. 4 handed, button vs SB could be pretty standard

[gumbie]

and the 3bet preflop.. eh, i dont really mind it. 4 handed, button vs SB could be pretty standard

Stack sizes make it terrible.

We get a megaflop for our hand and still find ourselves in a retarded spot because we managed to bloat the flop on two streets.

It's even worse strategically considering we're gonna have position 3/4 of the time against the big stack and we choose to do this here with this hand.

yukky all round.

[kingetje]

good point.. have to admit though, i have like zero experience being ridiculously deep

[MrDarling]

Yeah PF is bad because we are so deep. If he's any decent his calling range IP is very wide and he's not calling just to hit. He's going to make our decision very tough.

Flop is even worse. Have you ever 3B from the blinds and then check folded? Villain is good enough to know that, so sure you get some value from his air, but your line is pretty transparent and he can easily rebluff you with whatever equity he feels he have in the pot.

If I 3B this PF I'll just play it like AA. I'll cbet (maybe slightly larger then my usuall cbet size in 3B pot because we are deep and this is a semi drawy board) if he raise I'll just call. I'm not pushing AA, even on this flop for 300BB unless I have some sick reads.
If the turn is a blank we can c/c again. If its the flush I like leading a lot as our line looks fishy. and if its the straight I'll go for a big c/r.
If we whiff the river I'll might take a stab at it depending on the board and any timing/bet sizing tell I pick up.
You can consider leading the river with a blocking like bet, though you'll never fold better hands, you'll protect your self from being bluffed.

[kingetje]

Flop is even worse. Have you ever 3B from the blinds and then check folded?

i know i do, sometimes. some reg opens cutoff i 3bet AJo from the blinds. flop Q-3-2 or 8-7-6.. ill often just C/F there.

[miaowmiaowchowface]

lol never been called a turnip before

I can't believe you guys don't like preflop, being this deep obviously we want to have a *somewhat* balanced range pre that we 3bet OOB (even though our range will be leaning towards that of a polarized one, because QT isn't exactly easy to play OOP deep) so we want to include premium hands and hands that have excellent flop potential, suited aces, and suited connectors...

Anyway I definitely stand by preflop, and yeah I do C/f after 3betting sometimes, if you don't you become uber-exploitable. Probably should have just taken a b3b or b/c c/c (maybe c/r on a blank) line , or c/c flop.

Thats a good point about having position deep on him 3/4 rounds though- I've never thought about it that way.

btw darling what you mean about betting out a diamond being a fishy line?

[gumbie]

I can't believe you guys don't like preflop, being this deep obviously we want to have a *somewhat* balanced range pre that we 3bet OOB (even though our range will be leaning towards that of a polarized one, because QT isn't exactly easy to play OOP deep)

You don't need to balance your range unless you expect to be playing this deep against this guy a lot, which I doubt.

A5s is rubbish because you aren't gonna get a flop like this very often and A high flops are gonna give u a serious headache.

[gumbie]

Just to add I seem to remember a bunch of people recommending coldcalling from the blinds preflop with ur entire range this deep against strong players in a thread where a guy got into trouble with AJs, I'll try and find it.

[ScanX]

also, u can be balancing well enough without including trouble hands like Ax in your 3betting range.
If you believe you would be exploitable if you weren't doing it, it's that you're paranoiac, or playing a too strong opponent, or have other leaks...or all at the same time.

[odlozilik]

Villain's 3bet on the flop is only minraise. Wouldn't he raise more with the set/2 pair? It looks like an overpair to me. I would consider to push.

[miaowmiaowchowface]

I can't believe you guys don't like preflop, being this deep obviously we want to have a *somewhat* balanced range pre that we 3bet OOB (even though our range will be leaning towards that of a polarized one, because QT isn't exactly easy to play OOP deep)

You don't need to balance your range unless you expect to be playing this deep against this guy a lot, which I doubt.

A5s is rubbish because you aren't gonna get a flop like this very often and A high flops are gonna give u a serious headache.

why wont I be playing against him regularly? he is a regular lol, I'd be interested to see that thread btw. true that Ax can be causing trouble...

also Odlo it's not quite a minraise and he prolly raises roughly this size with his entire range

Results: I shoved and he snaps 33... my draws always miss

[gumbie]

Villain played this hand pretty good.