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Neteller's cutoff of US Customers Seriously Affects online rooms, evidenced by dropoff in weekend traffic

US Dept. of Justice Takes Aim at British Banks

I don't want to start a panic, but it looks like things might be a little more serious than we anticipated when we all decided to calm down after the ban was signed.

I feel the number of fishes decreasing by the day...

Wow, those American do have the nerves - attacking UK banks for doing what is legal in the UK:

Damn.

The banks mentioned in the article are pretty serious players on the world banking stage, the DoJ isn't going to be able to push the big boys around as easily as they have been able to the online payment processors. It will be interesting to see what happens when these major banks start pushing back.

Fat Tony wrote:The banks mentioned in the article are pretty serious players on the world banking stage, the DoJ isn't going to be able to push the big boys around as easily as they have been able to the online payment processors. It will be interesting to see what happens when these major banks start pushing back.

Agreed. No way those heavyweights back down. As I've said before when someone finally stands up in a court the DOJ will lose it's teeth.

This sucks.

None of the charges against the NT guys will stand up in court. The US has no authority to go after the banks that are overseas. This is nothing more than intimidation at its finest.

Fat Tony wrote:The banks mentioned in the article are pretty serious players on the world banking stage, the DoJ isn't going to be able to push the big boys around as easily as they have been able to the online payment processors. It will be interesting to see what happens when these major banks start pushing back.

In addition to the banks' clout in their own right, at least two of these banks are the "Home Town Bank" in their respective countries. At a time when the US has it's back against the wall with respect to world opinion it is mind boggling to me that the government is bullying these institutions (and by extension it seems to me the banks' home countries). The arrogance this action conveys to me (in the absence of any explanation of a motivation beyond curtailing Internet gambling) is unbelievable.

I believe the UK bank subpeonas are just more scare talk. An article I read of it yesterday said that doj originally did this back in October or so... they've just reissued them.

The mtt decline of last weekend has also been compared to the impact seen immediately after the uigea was passed and so many major rooms bailed from the us market: We'll see the numbers recover as players move to other payment mechanisms.

Now I'm not saying this should all be blown off: this is still a big deal, but in the end all they're going to accomplish is push the dedicated players underground. Will it impact the number of fishies in the pond? Yes, but I doubt as much as people fear. There are a lot of dedicate fish playing: guys who have played for years and only think they know wtf they are doing.

vyni wrote:The mtt decline of last weekend has also been compared to the impact seen immediately after the uigea was passed and so many major rooms bailed from the us market: We'll see the numbers recover as players move to other payment mechanisms.

I didn't read the article regarding the timing but don't forget that last weekend was a major football weekend with the superbowl participants being determined.

It doesn't matter whether foreign banks do or do not stand up to the DOJ. There is only one important thing that matters to serious online poker players: FISH BEING ABLE TO REDEPOSIT MORE MONEY. If UK banks decide to fight some subpoenas, that won't help bad American poker players dump more recreational income onto poker sites. WE can find alternative methods to depositing and cashing out, but the majority of fish will not bother to jump through the hoops.

vyni wrote:Will it impact the number of fishies in the pond? Yes, but I doubt as much as people fear. There are a lot of dedicate fish playing: guys who have played for years and only think they know wtf they are doing.

I disagree. The number of people who think they know what they are doing, and will find alternative methods of redepositing, is FAR fewer than the number of recreational players who lose money regularly, and won't.

Make no mistake, there will be online poker for a long time, and there will most likely always be some sort of workaround for those of us who want to move money on and off sites. The law and the governments motives are ridiculous, but they will have the intended effect of drying up the well at the source. Unless the law changes, the games online will just become harder and harder, and good players will be passing money around while losing rake.

MrDarling wrote:Wow, those American do have the nerves - attacking UK banks for doing what is legal in the UK:

Damn.

The problem isn't that the US is picking on the UK banks just because we can. The issue is that companies in the UK and elsewhere are servicing the US, so they must abide by US laws, where it is explicity illegal to accept these types of wagers.

Think of a more extreme example. You have an internet company and payment processor located in a small country where child porn is legal. Now they advertise and focus their business on the US market. The USA says child porn is illegal in the US, you're not allowed to view it, possess it, buy it, or sell it. Now if that small company only sold child porn to its own residents, the US wouldn't care less. But once they started selling to US residents, they're breaking US law.


Not saying I particularly agree with this stance, but it is what it is.

We just need to arrest and charge all US politicans with Behaviour unbecoming a politican and strip them of their office. Then elect all new people and start this damn government over again. Do away with the morally bankrupt SOBs and get some real fresh blood in their.

By the people and for the people.

Viva La Resitance!!!!!!!

What we're overlooking here though is that those beginner fishies where already jumping through a hoop to play: Neteller. These neteller accounts were created because they can't just toss a visa/mastercard. They found the credit/bank blocks, found the neteller option and proceeded. Right now, the hoop has just been moved. Same old problems, just different solutions.

So long as there is a deposit method, they will still be coming. I can see the phone card method becoming a far more common option before too long as we see alternate methods fall down.

I already noticed a sharp dropoff in "fish" activity at the $200 NL tables after the UIGEA, and following the Neteller ban it seemed like the only players I recognized at the tables were players I knew as being solid, probably semi-professionals like myself.

Online is a lot more covenient, but I'm wondering if it's worth the trouble since casino games are about 10x easier, and there is no telling who will cut off US transactions next.

When I first learned of the UIGEA, I panicked. Turned out that was a little premature. But now I'm getting worried again, and I think it's a little more well-founded. Online traffic may pick up again soon, but I think there will be yet another downturn in July right after the 270 enforcement period expires. I'm nervous enough about the security of my funds and the lack of fish at the tables that my online days may be through.