Who Really Wins...

[Jairman]

Hi, brand new here....

I love Texas Hold'em.

Last night in my weekly game, something very strange happened that we had never encountered before.

Here's what went down....

3 players in the game. I'm the dealer.
I call the big blind.
small blind raises.
original big blind folds.

2 players.

Flop 2 K 3

Player bets, I call.

4th street = 6

Player moves all in... I immediately call and proceed to turn over my cards very quickly.... ( he has me covered in chips )

I have K 6

He looks at my cards and the board, and says "damn, it doesn't matter now"... takes his cards and tosses them almost in the middle of the table...

I say "oh wow... " and then for whatever reason, burn and turn the last card... wich is a

4

We both look and nothing is said... I begin to scoop up the cards, I was going to hand them to him for the next deal, when he says...
"wait a minute", "spread those back out", he then picks up the cards that he previously "mucked" and starts counting...

thats right, he has a 5 in his hand... he did make a straight.... but had already "mucked" his hand before the River came.

I said he conceaded the hand and that I win... he says no, he's still alive, becuase he's all in....

So... who really won the hand ?

[BeerWench13]

Once the cards reach the muck they are dead. You win.

Welcome to the forum!! Enjoy!

[JackKingOff]

welcome ya... once muckage they are no longer his

[Jairman]

Thats what I said...

He said... well I laid the cards over there didn't fold them...

I told him, yeah.. you tossed them aside until I turned the last card.

He then says, we'll besides I'm all in and so are you, so we just turn our cards up and determine the winner... I say no, you mucked.


Oh well....

[golddog]

That's why, in a casino, they scoop the cards into the muck just as fast as they can. No question about whether they were folded or not.

"Touch the muck" seems to be the point of his contention. From your description, it's pretty clear he intended to fold, but they didn't acutally, physically touch the muck.

Don't let it stress you out. Work out a solution you both can agree is fair and move on.

Next time, before you go rabbit hunt, make sure all cards are properly mucked.

Or even better, don't hunt.

[Johny]

In a home game I would let him take the pot. In a tournament you have to show your cards during an all-in situation, don't you?

Welcome to the forums.

[HalfSugar]

Welcome aboard :D

[Moon_Child]

in a home game i agree to let him take the pot... but next time if he mucks it, his cards are gone...

in a tournment, both cards must be shown no matter what and winner takes the pot


simple as that.

[tame_deuces]

If you muck, you're out. Tossing your cards away facedown doesn't mean anything but a muck.

Nobody tosses their cards facedown across the table because 'they might make a winning hand and intend to retrieve the cards if that is so', that's just b*shit.

[mindgame]

Moorehead once wrote that in order to be a LONG TERM winner in poker you must be willing to lose a few arguments--even when you are right. The more gracioulsy you do so (and the worse the player you lose the argument to) the better.

I have ignored this excellent advice from time to time, but only to regret it later.